The Ringworm Story – Follow up

A photograph of a severe ringworm infection

What happened next

Once this article was published I informed Heavenlyhogs through the Reptile UK Forums of its existence. This morning I received her reply which I post here in its entirety, exactly as it was received by me:

Quote:

Dear Ms Fountain,

I’d like to inform you about a blog article I posted earlier today about you on my site
Hedgehogs as Pets

Thanks for your time

Regards
Spike

Hi there
thanks for that i found it very very interesting what i also find interesting is your lack of Balls to actually name yourself.
Let’s get a few little things straight shall we?
Check my feedback and you will see i have had people to my home recently and it is NOT filthy as your bulls article implies.
Futhermore no vet report was ever received from chazy babe and im sick of her and others using her health issues as a sympathy card whilst meanwhile all those concerned acuse me of using my sons as a so called sympathy card,my sons made the offer,shoot them for their love of me and their pets why dont you.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would be aware of the freedom of information act to find out if i was ever indeed prosecuted for any illegal importation of hedgehogs including youand clearly i was not so therefor einstein NO offense could have been comitted.If it was why would they drop the case with no action…deeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr
Why dont you print some lovely articles on the very people spreading RUMOUR and crapola of so called authority on inbreeding and keeping hedgies in plastic boxes with no excercise wheels all stacked one on the other.While you’re at it check out the uk website if you want to see filthy husbandry with lots of zoozones stacked on top of one another with the insides being absolutely appalling and no wheels ect.Those breeding hoglets through inbreeding that were born with extra limbs and non functional back legs and sold with owners merely offered a NEW hog no mention of paying vet feesyet i had a ringworm issue and all hell breaks loose well i guess im really bad for wanting vet reports from BOTH parties before issuing ANY payments.And i’m ever so sorry i will not be walked all over for the likes of you or anybody else,my apologies for that.Why the hell would i issue refunds with no vet report?
As for the breeders list i do not care for it in light of the above.
I am setting up my own hedgehog club and and will mention the breeders you haven’t and this story,there isnt a damn thing you can do about that.No one will drive me away from my passion at that includes YOU.
I am not miss fountain or Viljoen by the way
New husband new surnameand for the record i will leave the money making up to 90% of uk breeders.I am a millionairess why the hell would i care for the disimal money for a hedgie.
IDIOT
Mrs mindyaowngoddamnbusiness

__________________

I think the email speaks for itself and no further comments are necessary from me. I did try to use the Reptile UK user interface to reply to Heavenlyhogs but it appears that she has shut down all means of doing so at her end. I have posted a reply on a forum where she has pictures of her latest litter and that can be found here (please note my username is Alley-Cat on this forum):

http://www.emerald-isle-exotics.com/hedgehogs-f20/some-of-my-boys-t37.htm#258

As this post is likely to be deleted soon I’m also pasting my reply below:

Hi again Heavenlyhogs,

Unfortunately you have turned off the means of communicating with you on the Reptile UK Forum.

Thanks very much for your reply.

My name is Paul Murphy and I live in Verona, Italy. I’m ex-army (SIB) and teach English for a living. I’m 54 and have an 18 year old daughter. (So please stop accusing me of hiding behind my computer.)

Please note that nowhere in my article do I say that you were prosecuted for importing hedgehogs illegally into the UK. Perhaps I’m not quite as stupid as you imagine.

If you can supply me with links to anything or any evidence about what you said about other hedgehog breeders please send them to me and I will carefully consider writing an article about it as well.

Please feel free to make comments on my blog about anything you feel is inaccurate or misleading.

Hedgehogsaspets.com

Regards
Paul

The text below was first sent to me as an email and then posted as a comment on the Follow-up page. Due to its length I am posting it here (as I intended to do with the email anyway, Heavenlyhogs beat me to it). Again it is posted in its entirety.

Hello Paul
i saw your message on my websites guest page.
Firstly may i point out that you have named me and i’m not sure unless you have 100% proof of claims that that is altogether fair or even legal.
This would mean you would have to have all copies of both parties vet bills,along with RSPCA reports and my own vets reports.Otherwise it is hearsay and unreliable.
also the list of recommended breeders are all friends of each other and also the UK reg is not a uk reg but a branch so that needs to be straightened out.
I find your article highly unprofessional in light of what i have said so far.
Let me take you back to the begining,i originally started out as thehoghut several months before becoming heavenlyhogs,i even had a forum to that effect and a member of that forum was Bonnie martin aka happyhogs.I had a male hoglet on reserve from her and 1 other lady Alicia Chantrey at the time.I showed bonnie my site which at the time also had an availables page.Yet she NEVER uttered a word about the available page being inappropiate and was still happy to sell me the hoglet i ha reserved.Now if there was any doubts at that time why would she have been supporting me and giving no mention of the available page.She knew i wanted to breed someday but never uttered a word about it being inappropiate to have an availables page on my website or a FORUM.
Not too long after and just about a week before i was due to collect my boy from both breeders my grandmother(who lives abroad)was taken seriously ill and my partner was hospitalised with ptsd,my personal life has no baring or any business of anyone but out of goodwill i sent both breeders emails telling them i had to let them down and why.And i also closed down the forum as i didn’t have the time to contribute to it then.
I had to go to be by my grandmothers side and at the same time be there for my partner so i thought i acted in the best interest of the hoglets concerned at the time.I thought the breeders would accept this and not talk about how BADLY i had let them down if it was in the best interests of the hoglets.My mistake.
So i went to see my grandmother and fortunately she made a satisfactory recovery.Not long afterwards i had a boy on reserve from another breeder,i emailed the breeder sent my £10 deposit via paypal and collected him a few weeks later.I was delighted and yes perhaps i got a little carried away coming back and opening a new website and forum for newbies but i was fascinated and passionate about these animals although my intentions may have been somewhat misinterprated at the time.However no one said anything and i even went into uk pygmy forum all excited to tell of my site name change,still no one said anything other than it was looking great.
I then went from england to belfast to collect a hoglet for me and one for a friend.I paid double the cost to do that as the ferry i had already booked and paid for refused carrige at the last moment despite previous confirmations that this would be ok.
I had my hoglets 6mts when i decided to breed and alot of new owners do the same when they buy hoglets although they’re afraid to admit their intention to breed due to reprisals.In this 6mts i researched more and more and joined various forums ect.I had already researched hedgehogs a year prior to purchase,in fact i had noticed them and decided on ferrets instead.When i lost my boy ferret i thought of the hedgies i had seen and began researching and finding reputable breeders.
I’ve always been upfront and open of my intentions to breed from the begining i’ve not kept it hush hush as most newbies do.
I had learned a lot about the uk gene pool and wanted to do something about it so i contacted defra and was told in emails and telephone conversations that it was fine for me to import from holland via germany that no quarantine was needed.
So i thought great and set about my journey,yes the email you mentioned was out dated that’s because i didn’t have the original one they sent.Hell i didn’t think i would need it.My mistake again.The reason that later one came about is because i made exactly the same enquiry at the same time defra actually informed me when i of my own FREE will contacted them on the advise of another registra to ask them if they had been mistaken and the hedgehogs should have been indeed quarantined.That in itself just goes to show what a pigs ear they were making of things STILL.It was that email that saved me so to speak.I was told that they would be i touch and no one contacted me until 3 mts later after lengthy investigation to say that i could now keep the hedgehogs in my home since they were there for the 3 months i was waiting to hear.In the meantime i went without buying new furniture for my home and kepy a bidget just in case,my children were upset at my being upset and offered to h!
elp.
All this time myself and my family and other pets were placed at risk.Would i intentionally do this?NO.That’s insane as far as rabies is concerned.
So as i said 3mts later they contacted me to say that the hedgies must rmain on the property until the 6 month period was over and that i should report any symptom to them and a vet immediately.
No charges were ever brought and if i had intentionally imported without the propper papers,procedures then i’m pretty sure i would have been,but i did to my mind do everything by the book and rely on them for the correct information.
I went on to have my first litter and sold all those in the litter as you well know.Yes it is most unfortunate that ringworm was evident.But all i can say is that i apologised to those concerned(i still have their emails)and would do all i could to rectify the situation.
None of my animals showed any visable signs of ringworm at any point so there was no way i would have known about it.I did contact my vet with the intention of binging every hog and it was explained that skin scrapes would need to be made but the best course of action was to treat for ringworm immediately.I was advised by keepers/breeders that imaverol was very sucessful in the treatment of ringworm in hedgehogs and available without perscription.I rang my vet and had a consultation and they had a look at one of my hedgies and said that no sign of ringworm was evident.I told my vet about the advise i had been given on imaverol and they looked up the ingredients to make absolutely sure it was ok to use and they said it was and did i want themto order it in to whichi replied i had already sent for some but just wanted to make absolutely certain of its use.
And i indeed treated all my hedgies.
One of my recent litter babies was also tested to the tune of £100 and tested negative and my vet said there and then it was highly inprobable that any of my other hedgies had it since i treated and practiced good hygene.
I have offered both parties vet fees and i did receive an invoice from iain and julie but i have ot to date ever received an invoice from chazy.Despite my many requests.I was polites and courteous up to the point and a little beyond of the rep uk forums posts.I found it highly offensive and unecessary to word it in the way it was and innacurately say that i was “convicted”of illegal importations.
I still to this day maintain that monies(despite these posts and accusations)for iain and julie will be sent to hedgehog welfare.
To date as i mentioned i have not received anything from Chazy and i would like very much to see this pm’s or emails she thinks she has sent to me requesting the refund.It is standard practice for all breeders to request such documentations.
With regards to stacking cages,yes i do in 2’s and there is nothing wrong with it.Have you even bothered to look at my set ups on the forums or my hedgies to check anything.As for my home being filthy that is also VERY untrue.Ask lota front in my feedback she recently visited my home to deliver a lizard and commented in the feedback that i was a nice person and my reptiles were in fatastic shape so i resent you remarks not only toward my hedgies which are quite clearly healthy looking and in suitable housing but for the other exotics i keep.I would like evidence of this.
With regards to the rspca that is a blatent lie and i welcome yu to ring them,i will give my permission for details to be released on your behalf.
Forgive me if i’m wrong but standard practice for animals hat have beendenied a vet and filthy condition is removal,not time time for rectification when they urgently need a vet.The animals would have been removed there and then.
With regards to other breeders and all i have said i think it is for you in light of what you are doing to research facts thoroughly before publishing works.This in my opinion is most unprofessional.You can find full details of what i have said in the breeders helping breeders yahoo forum in the archives quite frankly i don’t have the energy for this email let alone go delving into what has past.But the same breeder attacking me was accused of bad breeding practices herself.
I find the mention(as an ex army member yourself)of my partners ptsd,my children and my grandma totally uneccasary.They are of no concern to anyone.
It was at my request i be removed from the hhc breeders list as i am emigrating and will no longer be part of the uk.I’m sure i have this email request in my sent folder somewhere.Really i do not have the fight in me.If you’re professional and passionate about what you contribute then this article would never have been made without first consulting all those involved and having 100% proof.
As for money making i don’t think so.
My partner has an incredible job(his own business now)which nets him millions by the year.Also i donate to hedgehog research for every hoglet i sell,unfortunately due to about £1,000 of vet fees in recent month this has not been possible.I am also currently setting up an animal sanctuary.
Michelle

nothing futher to add

355 Comments on "The Ringworm Story – Follow up"

  1. heavenlyhogs | 07/03/2009 at 9:13 pm |

    RE: Blog Article about you‏
    From: Michelle Viljoen ([email protected])
    Sent: 07 March 2009 17:55:16
    To: [email protected]

    Hello Paul
    i saw your message on my websites guest page.
    Firstly may i point out that you have named me and i’m not sure unless you have 100% proof of claims that that is altogether fair or even legal………
    [Due to the length of this comment it’s contents have been moved to the Follow up page above]

  2. heavenlyhogs | 07/03/2009 at 10:19 pm |

    p.s.and i do sicerely apologise for the earlier message i truly thought you were bogus.I have put my whole personal life out in the open to protect what is precious to me and that is my animals not my pocket and to explain why things went the way they did.I admit i sometimes get defensive but then again it’s not every day you’re accused of having a criminal record,deny your animals a vet,or neglect them,that’s the hardest part and does get my back up i admit it.And i thank you for certain aspects of this article in so much as make ringworm more known.That in itself for me makes all this worth while.
    And in time when i indeed have my animal sanctuary in full operation the “truth” about heavenlyhogs will be known.

  3. Ian Miles | 08/03/2009 at 2:50 pm |

    Hi Shell
    Ian & Julie here, are you are now saying you are willing to reimburse our vets fees? You have had our vets reports for MONTHS, You have spoken to him on the phone. We have direct emails off you to us saying you will NOT pay Julie and I. Then we get emails off you saying when your partner is releasaed he will look into it, as he is the breadwinner and is paying the bills.
    Everyone knows Julie and I never wanted the money from you, we have asked you privately and on the various boards to make our cheque out to a hog charity of our choice.
    Just because you have not had Chazes vets reports why are you penalising us and a nominated hog charit.

    Ian

  4. Hi Ian I’m very pleased to see you found this blog.

    I and many other people, going by the comments they have made on the various forums, have never understood the condition Heavenlyhogs made of having both vets’ bills before she would give you a refund. There’s no logic to it. The only connection between you and Chaz is that you bought hedgies from her that were subsequently found to be infected with ringworm.

    To be completely honest the whole refund conditions thing gives me the impression that Heavenlyhogs is hoping that if she procrastinates long enough you’ll get fed up and go away. I’m not saying that that is the case but I think any reasonable person could be led to that suspicion by the way she’s gone about it.

    The whole question of the bills became moot anyway as she withdrew her offer at the beginning of December didn’t she?

    I know that Chaz has said she has given up trying to get any satisfaction, although she can ill afford it, as the stress of having to travel miles to take Pickle to see a specialist vet and dealing with her ringworm infection and her ME was affecting her badly.

    I know you guys made it plain from the beginning that you never wanted any money from Heavenlyhogs. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m under the impression that she volunteered to refund your vet’s fees without you requesting it didn’t she?

  5. heavenlyhogs | 08/03/2009 at 4:54 pm |

    Iain
    kindly refrain from isinuations and rumours that my partner is perhaps in jail.It can be proved that he is not.

  6. Now i could have come on here and told the lot of you just where to get off but then i suspect thats what you want thats what youre expecting.I am Michelle`s other half….I`m not waiting to be released from no where in fact i have been working my ass off on my own company and buying a house for michelle and i something that i guess you lot cant reeally afford without ……..awww bollox im not going to go into all that i`m pretty sure you guess what i wanted to say.but here lets set the records straight shall we.
    1)Michelle`s home is not fithy..the time you cam round to her house it was being refurbished so yeah it was a tad bit untidy but what do you expect when you busy doing your house up??
    2)you claimed the couch smelled of wee. how do you know did you put your nose to it??do you know Michelle has two autistic children??? there was no wee on the couch what was on the couch could have been water coffee or anything liquid spilled on it.
    3)ring worm is such a common thing if michelle was that dodgy why did she go to this higher authority asking for help on how to deal with it ….i mean dodgy people stay quiet about their dealings dont they….just ask ….ah never mind they know who they are trying to flog of inbred hedgies tut tut tut.
    4)michelle hasnt been in charge of the refunds as i took all that over from her because she has enough to deal with already…and when i deem it so i will issue the refunds and to date i have not decided if i want to give the money to michelle so she can send the refunds off or not.why you might ask…simple….you lot started this witch hunt against michelle after she not once not twice not three times but more than a dozen times said shes sorry for what ever shes done wrong but yet you will carry on picking and picking and picking on her..i guess the saying is true ..small things amuses small minds.since michelle`s posts on the so called higher hedghog breeders police forum where exactely did you try and contact her when exactely??? do you have any proof???if you have i would love to see it.i will make what ever donation i see fit to any hedgehog charity that i deem will benefit from the money …..i wont be dictated to whome i send money and to whome i dont send money i will choos and when and if a decide to do so i will send you conformation of such a donation made.
    You know i once used to get angry at the way you lot throw accusations around and call people out and this and that but then i realised something you people must have extremely small minds and nothing to do all day and all night because you obviously have a lot of time on your hands.time that could be constructivly used to start working together and solving other problems but then what do you expect from people that gets everything spoon fed to them.
    Now i have stayed out of this for a long time because to me this is school yard bully tactics and frankly its boring absurd and childish But when i get dragged into things i have to respond.now this crap has dragged on long enough dont you people ever get bored?
    I AM ONLY GOING TO ASK THIS ONE MORE TIME LEAVE MICHELLE ALONE DONT BOTHER HER WITH YOUR BULLYING AND CHILDISHNESS ITS BORING.
    all her hedgehogs are healthy they have all been treated by a respected vet there is no longer any ringworm in any one of her herd of hedgehogs or any one of her animals….you want a refund then i suggest you contact me.

    leave michelle alone

    thank you

  7. heavenlyhogs | 08/03/2009 at 5:13 pm |

    I am not penalising you however you insinuations and insults are not helping you in this matter.Why cant you not be civilised.I have always been polite from day 1.You openly accuse me of having a criminal record in a public forum and insinuate that my partner is perhaps in jail,then you go on to critisise my home and lie about its condition and insinuate that my animals are not cared for.

  8. oh and phone me any time if you want to speak to me..stop hiding behind a computer

  9. Ian Miles | 08/03/2009 at 6:40 pm |

    Michelle,

    Just one thing, you spelt my name wrong. Its Ian and not Iain.

    Many thanks.

    Ian

  10. Hi Marius and welcome to my Blog.

    Let me give you a little background with regards this blog so that you can get things into perspective and understand how this article came about.

    Until a few weeks ago this blog did not belong to me. I bought it off its previous owner. Anybody with Google can discover that. My reasons for doing so are private and certainly had absolutely nothing to do with you or Michelle. Suffice to say I do have some knowledge about keeping Hedgehogs and blogging is all about talking about something you enjoy doing.

    About 2 weeks ago while I was researching for material to write articles I literally stumbled across this story and quite frankly I was appalled. The decision to write what I have was mine and mine alone, NOBODY else was involved. I did contact Ian Julie and Chaz to get updates on their situation and I have “spoken” so to speak, with other members of the hedgehog community.

    You seem to think that this is part of some huge conspiracy against you, it isn’t. I believe that ANY right minded person that spends the time to go through those forum posts will come away with a nasty taste in their mouths. The way you have treated Ian Julie and Chaz, and continue to do so, is and has been shoddy to say the least. It’s not surprising that they are angry with you.

    You are correct when you say that other members of the hedgehog community are hostile towards you. However, whatever went on between you and them in the past has nothing to do with YOUR clients. When Chaz, Ian and Julie found themselves in the predicament they did, is it really that surprising that they found natural allies with the very same people who said that they had had problems in their dealings with you in the past whether their allegations are true or not? Remember these people, who you are so quick to vilify, are the same people who did the the things for them that you had promised but failed to deliver on.They offered sympathy and support when they found themselves in what undoubtedly was a very distressing situation.

    The tone of some of the posts Michelle made on the forums do her no credit. An example of the type can be found at the top of this page. Whether she thought I was bogus or not she gives the impression of being childish and spiteful. Had you done the right thing at the beginning of this whole sorry tale nobody would be have been any the wiser. Instead it escalated and got way out of hand. Nobody is going to believe that Ian and Julie brought ringworm into your house especially not after Chaz got it. I’m sorry but that’s human nature. Where the fungus came from is not even the reason for all this palaver, it’s how you dealt with it later.

    Even now you’re smugly sitting there saying “I haven’t decided whether I’m going to pay them or not….” It was Michelle who sold them the hedgehogs. It was Michelle who promised to pay them their vets’ fees. What an earth do you think people reading that remark will think they’ll wonder what you have got to do with anything. Do you actually think you saying “Leave Michelle alone…” is going to make this go away? I think people will continue to hound you about it until you settle it by paying them the money you promised. At least then if you are criticized for your actions you can say you did the right thing and the matter is closed. At the moment it’s like an open suppurating wound which won’t heal.

  11. heavenlyhogs | 08/03/2009 at 9:00 pm |

    I have not received 1 email from Ian about the matter since the thread was locked in HHC.And none from Chaz and no vet report either despite having her vet send her a copy.I would like evidence as many times it has been suggested they have sent dozens of emails.Instead the manner in which both parties dealt with it is in public forums and sites such as this.It IS a PRIVATE matter.
    Now we were both happy to pay refunds up to the point that insults,insinuations,defamation and accusations were thrown around in public forums as stated in my previous message.And anyone whos anyone would be peed off with that just the same,that also is human nature.There was no need for it.
    Despite this we’re still happy to pay where many would not for those very reasons.
    Ian and julie your refund is going to be made as stated by marius.You have been told this.
    We still await Chaz’s report.
    Neither one of us will be visiting the site again and we both feel we have said all that’s needed.
    Any futher contact should be made in private.

    Paul we have no evidence of who you are btw.Only who you claim to be so my initial reaction to your original pm quite frankly was a natural one.As far as i was concerned my initial thought was the same as yours to marius “What have you got to do with it anyway?”As far as i was concerned at the time it was as much to do with you as the person next door.
    that is all

  12. Ian Miles | 08/03/2009 at 9:04 pm |

    Well said Paul.

    Ian

  13. Well done Paul Hope you have brought enough attention to show other people who they may be dealing or hopefully not dealing with. Aggie

  14. heavenlyhogs | 09/03/2009 at 2:57 am |

    You see this is where most people become deluded into thinking people will not buy my hedgehogs.The fact of the matter is all my available hoglets have been sold and i,believe it or not have a waiting list.
    You see everyone i decide to sell to DO get told about this incident and are left to decide for themselves,it really doesn’t matter to me if they sell or not because i do not sell for profit,i also have the space to keep as many as i choose.However more often than not they admire my honesty in telling them and publicly posting the incident and to go on to forums and respond to every post made where most would remainly blissfuly ignorant.On the other hand some have been put off owning/breeding because the hedgehog community is seen as nasty one(a bit like the kennel club)and many in that very same community remain silent fearful of alienation and possible ruin if they speak out,i had 2 such persons from uk pygmy hogs forum on my msn,they always always came to me with tales to that effect however they still remain silent and members of the very same site and there are more just like them.
    I cannot repeat on a public site what some said they would say to the persons concerned if they personally were accused of having criminal records,being in jail,or neglecting their animals BEFORE REFUNDS WERE RETAINED i wish to add,to mention just a few things that i have been publicly accused of.Although i admit i’ve been warm.
    Now if the above things were not said iain and julie would have had their refunds a long time ago with a cherry on the top,BUT they chose not to be civilised.
    I think in light of that i am being very generous in making sure the appropiate welfare organisation receives a donation on their behalves.
    We do NOT see any persons buying or who have bought or will buy our hedgies as customers or “clients”.Our hedgies are NOT a product.

    People will continue and do continue to buy our hedgies.

    Main reason for reply here was to inform iain and julie and the general public that the sum of £150 will be contributed to a hedgehog welfare organisation asap.
    We had no knowledge their problems and bills were ongoing as we were not informed of this until we read this site,we would also like another report from the vet to verify this please.
    thank you

  15. Thanks for the comment Aggie.

    There’s no real point in commenting on the majority of what you say above Heavenlyhogs. Normally the funds in these type of cases go to a charity chosen by the person receiving the refund not the other way round.

    Why do you want to see more vet’s bills?

    As far as I am aware they have already sent you bills amounting to £150 and you agreed to pay them £100 back in December. They say their bills have now reached nearly £350. Do you intend to pay the full £350 then? Is that why you want to see the extra bills?

    If that’s not the case then what you are saying just looks yet another delaying tactic.

    If you do make this donation are you going to provide evidence that you did so? Otherwise people will simply not believe you.

    So if they are not clients or customers what are they? Are you giving your hedgies away for free? If you aren’t doing it for profit why are you doing it?

    Anyway off to work see you later…

  16. Ian Miles | 09/03/2009 at 8:36 am |

    Shell
    The vets bills are available but why should we waste anymore time on this.
    Are you now saying you will pay the vets bills in total? You have said on numerous occasions, AND THIS IS NOT A LITERAL QUOTE SO DONT GO OFF ON THIS ONE. that you will only pay to the value of Leo.
    You or your partner have had literally MONTHS to make a donation but instead all we get is I WILL PAY WHEN I SEE FIT.
    What kind of attitude is that from a so called RESPONSIBLE, CARING BREEDER.
    All this would never have even started if you had acted responsibily in the first place.
    We told you of Leo’s condition just to inform you that you MAY have a possible Ringworm outbreak. YOU were the one that went straight to the board, OH HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN I’M SO CLEAN.
    As you say this has gone on long enough, I will not be sending you any more invoices till I see some genuine intent to be a responsible breeder. You have our phone number use it.

    Ian

  17. My personal view is that this was a very balanced story. well done and hopefully these issues can be prevented in the future. There are no excuses here only contradictions and a desire to brush it under the carpet.

  18. Thank you for that Kristian.

    I’ll repeat again Heavenlyhogs. Chaz, Ian, and Julie, nor their daughter Kendal are part of any problems you had at some earlier time with UK Pygmies or any other breeder. Whatever those people did has nothing to do with them. You keep lumping them together.

    This has all to do with you promising to pay them their vet’s fees and not doing so. I’ve already mentioned here that Chaz decided not to bother any longer as it was affecting her health. I’m led to believe that you, or your vet has already been in contact with both vets concerned. You could simply get confirmation over the phone from them.

    And I have to say I’m very concerned about DEFRA’s role (if there was one) in all this. The lack of interest they seem to have paid to the importation of animals into the UK that should have been put into quarantine and weren’t, needs further investigation. And I don’t mean to imply “investigate you” I mean their seemingly lackadaisical approach to the issue. As far as I am aware you were acting in good faith.

  19. heavenlyhogs | 09/03/2009 at 10:04 pm |

    I think this site deserves one last comment from myself.
    The reasons for “lumping them together”is that they are all now part of the same community and everything was fine until outside parties became involved and passed on INACCURATE information to ian and julie with regards to any convictions i may have had ad went on to ppublicly post them without first having the facts.Yes they may have gained some support from these parties as said but prior to their involvement i apologised to both parties concerned and offered to pay refunds upon receipt of the veterinary reports.Once these outside parties became involved things turned,starting with the first post made in rep uk stating i had criminal convictions(admin deleted)ect ect.
    I have offered ian and julie the total £150 refund as said to a charitable organisation.I don’t think Chaz’s condition is an explaination as to why veterinary reports were never received.Afterall she promised to send them several times.Chaz lives at home,i’m sure her parents would have been happy to do this on her behalf if she was unwell enough to do so herself.

    Yes i did purchase my german lines in good faith and knew of no reason to believe that the breeder had problems with ringworm in her lines,but it later transpired(when it was too late)that there may have been alot of ringworm in her herd.
    I relied on the information defra gave me and ports at both sides knew of their impending departure and arrival.There were no customs officers that i could see of at the port of harwich only passport control.
    No hedgehogs or babies that came there after ever showed a solitary symptom of ringworm,i had no reason to suspect anything was wrong.I do have a letter here from my area department of enviromental and rural affairs that i received to state that the 3 german hedgehogs must not leave the premises for the 6 month duration from the time they enetered the uk.This remains for my eyes and an international hedgehog member only.
    I maintain to this day that my vet advised over the phone given the situation that i should treat immediately,she did not see my hedgies but still left an over the counter product to treat which i was to collect i maintain WITHOUT wanting first to see any hedgehog i had.I decided to opt for imaverol which i purchased online.A hoglet from a recent litter was due to be rehomed as stated i paid £100 in consultation(with another vet at the same practice)and in tests to ensure there was no risk of ringworm and to my releif he tested negative.They let the culture develop for many weeks to ensure it.Past the recommended time frame of 2 weeks,just to make certain.
    This isn’t a sympathy card by any means but i myself have been throughmy fair share of ordeals in recent months.And i hope now that this is an end to it.
    As a safe guard in the future and due to sheer paranoia of the whole expirience a baby from each litter will be tested to ensure that the disease has been totally eradicated from the herd as is currently believed due to treating.I feel i can do no more than that than other perhaps be a little tougher skinned in certain aspects when people exert their anger.
    I admit i should have paid out whether the cause could be prooved or not at the time these things transpired and as said given that all my hedgehogs are cared for very very well and are healthy in appearance it’s quite upsetting when it’s insinuated to be any different as explained in previous comments.
    thank you

  20. heavenlyhogs | 09/03/2009 at 10:58 pm |

    Ian none of this would ever have started if you didn’t start throwing around insults,insinuating my partner was locked up or accusing me in a public forum of having criminal convictions and being some filthy back street mare,for which btw you have never apologised for.At least i can hold my hands up and say you know what i’m sorry about this or i’m sorry about that.
    Yes evidence will be provided of said donation.And if you say you have these additional vet bills then yes i would very much like to see them and yes i may be willing to make an additional donation on top of the £150 when i see that bill.
    And to anserw your i’m so clean comment,yes i am,so are my parents who run a 4 star luxury hotel and work full time also,so are my siblings who are all professionals,accountants ect so i know about standards all too well since i was born.But i was also raised to stand on my own 2 feet despite this and fend for myself which during the time my partner has been absent working his but off so that we have the same lifestyes of both our families has been very difficult.And during waiting to hear at no fault of my own whether i would need to pay over £4,000 in quarantine costs YES i have had to give up living in the lap of luxury for my animals,i couldn’t buy that new sofa,i couldn’t buy this or that.It would have been much cheaper and easier all round if i had just sent the german line back.But i persevered because i didn’t do anything wrong and i sacraficed a lot to do that.
    the end.

  21. Ian Miles | 09/03/2009 at 11:11 pm |

    Shell

    You got the name right this time thanks.

    Ian

  22. Heavenlyhogs I’m glad that you’ve decided to pay the £150 into a hedgehog charity on behalf of Ian and Julie, although to be honest I think you would be wiser to make a cheque out to one they nominate and send it to Ian and Julie and then there is absolutely no room for doubt or future insinuations etc.

    One thing I must say is that over the past 6 months, here and in other places you have stated that you are a millionaire or that your partner earns millions etc. As you can imagine, your story above about the sofa, furniture etc and having to give up living in the lap of luxury and making sacrifices for your animals due to a possible £4000 quarantine bill, just doesn’t add up.

    I find myself asking, and I’m sure other readers are doing the same, if she has so much money what’s a measly £4000?

    I’m not trying to wind you up here, I’m just asking a question that I’m sure is going through many readers’ minds.

  23. vivienne | 10/03/2009 at 12:44 pm |

    if your husband is as wealthy as you say whats the hold up of payment just pay to whoever they want and this could all be rectified There is a lot of words which do not have any significance to this problem pay up

  24. heavenlyhogs | 10/03/2009 at 6:56 pm |

    Obviously you have missed what my partner said.He has JUST set up his own company and spent many months away to do so.And really if you knew how i had to live in the 3mts with regards to the sofa new carpets ect ect(as unfortunately the quarantine issue transpired at that time) then yes its fair to say in comaprision to the way the house was before refurbishment it WAS luxury to what i had to resort to for 3mts.
    As stated before i had already agreed to refunds BEFORE the insults ect ect.So there was never a need for all that to begin with.
    That is the last question i shall be addressing on the matter i feel i have anserwed all the questions as accurately and as detailed as possible.
    Thank you

  25. Ian Miles | 10/03/2009 at 7:09 pm |

    Shell you KEEP saying you have agreed to return our vets fees.
    If this is the case why have we been waiting for MONTHS.
    Why are we STILL waiting.
    Just pay as you say you will and put an end to this saga. You are only making this S**T go on for ever and bringing all this upon youreself.
    Pay up and let it die.

    Ian & Julie

  26. heavenlyhogs | 10/03/2009 at 7:32 pm |

    You to date have never emailed me once to give me full details of your request you merely stated you wanted it to go to a charitable welfare society for hedgehogs in rfuk i am not psychic ian.So it might be an idea if you gave me some details as there are SEVERAL around and maybe then i will have an idea of what is expected.
    My old emails are no longer in use and haven’t been for a couple of days due to some pc problems so if you would please leave the details here i will take care of it i’m sure a reputabe charity will have an email address and telephone number.You may then contact them to confirm payment.

  27. Ian Miles | 10/03/2009 at 8:42 pm |

    Shell have you not heard of the DATA PROTECTION ACT.
    Do you think if I rang a charity and said can you tell me is Michelle Viljoen has paid £150 recently they would tell me anything.

    I will give you the details of two UK Hog charities.
    I would then like you to make two cheques out for £75 each and post them to Julie and I.
    I will then forward them on to the two nominated charities.

    If you on anyone else out there can think of a better way to do this please let me know.

    Ian & Julie

  28. heavenlyhogs | 10/03/2009 at 9:06 pm |

    Yes ian but i can authorise the release of those details to you.So yes they would if the situation was fully explained.
    So please state your nominated charities.

  29. Ian Miles | 10/03/2009 at 11:43 pm |

    Sorry Shell thats not going to happen,
    WHY are you being so stubourn, julie and I are the injured parties.
    YOU SAID YOU WOULD PAY US £150.
    Surely its up to us to decid how to give the money away.
    AND NOT TO BE DICTATED TO BY YOU what we should do with it.
    We are asking you to make the cheques out to the charities NOT to us, WHAT is your problem with that?
    You will send the money and it will be OH look everyone I have donated £150 to charity.
    Shell PLEASE do as we quite reasonably ask.

    Ian & Julie

  30. Sounds fair to me. I think paying it to a charity is a cop out in the first place. So at least that way this can be put to rest on the clearance of those cheques.

  31. Ian Miles | 12/03/2009 at 12:33 am |

    Ian Miles says:
    12/03/2009 at 12:25 am
    Marius / Michelle
    Julie and I can and will send you the latest vets reports and bills to prove to you the sittuation is still ongoing with Leo. But to be totally honest I think I would just be wasting more money on the stamp. You as HONEST, CARING breeders have NO INTENTION whatsoever of paying a penny. Is it any wonder the Hog community and most readers are turning against Shell.
    You have just said you are sick of seeing Shell crying over this situation.
    If you are controlling the purse strings Marius its YOU that is making Shell cry. YOU are the one prolonging this campaign against her. ARE YOU PROUD OF THAT?
    If she is ever to repair her reputation do you think you are helping?
    I’m sure there is room in the exotic pet trade for another breeder. But I’m not sure the community will ever let this drop even if I run out of steam and give up.
    I initially brought the Ringworm problem to Shells attention to inform her of a possible infection in her stock, NOT to start a 7 month witch hunt. I have always been willing to forgive and forget, hopefully others will to. But only if Shell is seen to become the CARING breeder she says she is. She needs to clean up her act, but by the sound of it she has done that already. Stop trying to endanger everyone by illegally importing hogs, stop the lying and back tracking. And generally obey the basic pet trade rules and guidelines.
    I dont mind her wanting to make a few quid out of her pets, good luck to her. What I do mind is when it affects my wife and childs health, not to mention Leo, Pickles and poor Chaz a poor invalid girl to weak to fight the damage Shell has caused.
    It’s not about the poxy £150 donation Shell promised to charity Marius, because to be honest if you dont send it, I will send £150 myself because it was I who promised the charities I would be sending it. AND I DONT BREAK MY WORD.
    But if I do have to send it Marius this will never go away and it will get a whole lot worse. There are directions I and others can and will take it.
    But to be honest I dont want to open that can of worms for your sake and the small pet trade in general. It will do nobody any good.
    Thats not a threat its a plea for you to stop this.

    Ian & Julie

  32. heavenlyhogs | 12/03/2009 at 3:53 am |

    after reading the upper post ian i’m a little confused you said you wanted 2 cheques made out to 2 different charities and send them to you so you can send them out.I’m OK with that all i asked was for you to name them.
    However will any of that change the damage you caused my reputation by insinuating i’m a convicted criminal,that i intentinally imported hogs and risked my life and that of my children and other around me or that i neglected my animals the right to see a vet,or that my home is some sort of squatters paradise,or that my care for my hedgehogs isn’t the best.Will it fix FAKED rspca reports furbitz made?
    How can you call yourself reasonable.

  33. Ian Miles | 12/03/2009 at 8:29 am |

    Shell NOTHING has been FAKED.
    As for neglecting your animals the right to see a vet, not sure how you arrive at that one. We PLEADED with you to take one of your herd to see a qualified vet, It was YOU who didnt see the need to. You opted for a TELEPHONE CONSULTATION for months. You began treating youreself BEFORE you ever took one. SO WHO IS IT THATS NEGLECTING HER HERD.

    Anyway I’m off to work now I have vets bills to pay.
    I will post on here tonight my two nominated charities.
    Ian

  34. Again I think you are missing the point Michelle.

    The damage to your reputation has not been caused by your accidental illegal importation of hedgehogs. I doubt most people care about that and it’s incidental.

    The damage has been, and is still being caused by the way you have dealt with and are still dealing with this unfortunate situation.

    It started to go wrong for both parties when you didn’t deliver what you promised at the time they received their hedgehogs. In Chaz’s case it was basically everything apart from a blanket and the hedgehog. No igloo, no 6 week vet insurance, no care sheet, no pedigree registration, no promised “guarantee”. It later turned out that her hedgehog was not registered anywhere.

    You tried to fob her off by saying your printer was broken and that the other items were in the “system”, adding that she would have them by CHRISTMAS, 3 MONTHS later. As far as I know,nearly 6 months down the line she still hasn’t received any of the things you promised and her pet’s registration was sorted out by others.

    I’m not sure what you promised Ian and Julie but they have said that they received no pedigree registration documentation from you.

    You promised to pay their vet’s fees up to the £150 value of the hedgehogs and 6 months later you haven’t. You’ve had Ian and Julie’s bill since at least December of last year but for some obscure reason you initially decided that unless you received Chaz’s bill as well you wouldn’t pay them. That later became moot anyway as you withdrew your offer 3 weeks later. Your partner came on here and started playing his little power game saying how he hadn’t decided whether he was going to pay or not. You finally agreed to pay Ian and Julie but added conditions as to what charity would benefit saying that you would make a donation to one of your choice.

    Now you’ve started saying you are “moving” again, a strategy I think you’ve used on several occasions when things get a little too hot for you. As far as I know you’re still in the same house you were about to move from last November. It just goes on and on.

    What you, your partner and your friend Jen (who still hasn’t explained why she thinks I’m an asshole) have tried to do here is portray yourself as a victim of some kind of grand conspiracy led by jealous breeders to damage your reputation as a breeder. What you fail to see is that it has been YOUR ACTIONS that have brought this whole sordid mess about and are still damaging your reputation, not only as a breeder but as a right minded person.

    Anybody with an ounce of common sense would have paid up, taken the loss and moved on.

    And yes Jen you may wonder why Michelle hasn’t taken legal action if none of this is true, the fact that she hasn’t perhaps tells its own story.

  35. heavenlyhogs | 12/03/2009 at 12:19 pm |

    YES ian it was FAKED ring the RSPCA and find out.
    My vet is my advisor and as such you are NOT qualified to say whether there information is accurate neither is your vet since all vets deal with the species differently.And as such my vet told me to go ahead and treat.Seems they have got something right if MY hedgehogs are now clear.I treat under the advise of my vet and a breeder whos taken in over fifty rescues with ringworm,that knows more about the species than any vet.I also strongly suggest you chose you words wisely when throwing accusations around or i may see fit to withdraw my offer.
    you have been waiting for just about 3 months from december for your refund.Dont forget before the post in rfuk you didnt want it.So please stop exaggerating your wait.
    I wont be here again it was a 3rd party who pointed out some things that didn’t make sense.
    I will send the money and you can take care of the rest yourself.I wont be back to check names.

  36. I assume you’re talking about Tan’s admirable work Michelle. I read all about it on the HC forum.

    Are you saying you treated your hedgehogs at the time under the direct advice of Tan? I don’t mean using her forum posts as a guide.

    I only ask as this is the first time you’ve ever mentioned it.

    I think the main problem with the whole neglect issue is that people simply do not believe that a vet would advise treating your herd for ringworm over the telephone without examining them first. You’ve said you self treated with Imaverol.

    You also continued mating your hedgehogs at the time they were being treated. We know this because you made an announcement in December saying you were expecting new hoglets in the new year. So I assume one of your hedgies was pregnant. Do you think mating your hedgies while they were still possibly infected with ringworm was the act of a responsible breeder?

    I find your comments trying to minimize the amount of time Ian and Julie have been waiting for their refund surprising. Especially since you seem to think that the 3 months you had to wait for a reply from Defra to have been excessive.

  37. heavenlyhogs | 13/03/2009 at 12:04 am |

    you really must look into the use of immaverol..Yes you’re assuming on both comments.
    I wasn’t breeding from ifected animals and the clear ringworm tests were on the litter you refer to(it’s still new year btw)CLEAR as expected.

    And with regards to ian and julies wait.They’re were waiting for money not rabies.
    bye

  38. Well you skirted around the question as usual.

    As you’ve agreed to pay Ian and Julie, any idea when they can expect the cheque?

  39. One more thing before you disappear. You’ve more or less admitted that the ringworm infection that Julie, Chaz and Kendal contracted originated with the German hedgehogs you imported. Nobody is blaming you for that by the way Michelle, it could happen to anybody.

    However the quarantine conditions in your house can’t have been very good can they? I’ve been informed that “parents” of the litter you sold to Ian, Julie and Chaz were UK based. So somehow the infection traveled from the Germans to the Brits so to speak. Do you have any comments on how this might have happened?

  40. heavenlyhogs | 13/03/2009 at 8:03 pm |

    No i’m not saying the ringworm definately originated from the german hogs,given the nature of ringworm(microscopic spores that can also become airborne)it is fair to say the source of it may never be known.
    Thank you to all for your comments and goodbye.

  41. Ian Miles | 14/03/2009 at 11:44 am |

    Still nothing arrived yet Spike.
    It must be in the second post.

    Ian & Julie

    PS. Watch for the flag on the town hall WHEN AND IF it ever does come.

  42. Thanks for the update Ian and Julie

    This makes interesting reading:

    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/off-topic-chat/158795-no-refund-gecko-what-should.html

    It’s basically Michelle complaining about somebody who promised her a refund and didn’t pay after several months.

  43. You really need to drop the “microscopic spore” business “and could have come from anywhere” line. You’ve said the German breeder’s herd was infected with ringworm.

    If you follow this link you’ll find some pictures YOU posted of YOU handling YOUR new “lines” in JUNE (great quarantine practices by the way). I’d suggest the source of the infection is quite obvious.

    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/exotic-mammals/140864-new-hedgies.html

  44. Michelle posted this under a different user name thehoghut In December 2007, some 8 months before she produced her first litter.

    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/domestic-exotics-classifieds/74933-african-pygmy-hedgehogs-waiting-list.html

    Did you actually own a hedgehog at that point Michelle?

    The fact that you’re already doing a sort of “market survey” does contradict what you’ve said about not being in it for the money and that some kind of higher ideal is involved….

  45. One last thing for this afternoon:

    Ian and Julie have emailed me to say that

    When they collected Leo we were given a tiny bag of dry Whiskers kitten food, a small pot of meal worms and a small cloth bag.

    Again as with Chaz they did not get the promised care sheet, Igloo, bedding, registration certificate or 6 week insurance policy. They are sure that the excuse was that her computer was down and she would send it on Monday. They say they telephoned Michelle several times over it but got nowhere.

    Leo’s registration was later sorted out by the UK APH Registry.

  46. Here’s another little gem, again from the sugar-slider forums.

    The whole thread, which makes interesting reading, can be found here:

    http://www.sugar-glider.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3005.0.html

    On 23 October Heavenlyhogs says [quote]
    thats fine and i expect it.But please don’t judge me on other peoples nastiness and gossip,however trust worthy.
    My ethics would be surrounding hedgies and i can validate from various people including propper bodies,the on going bullying and slander just from sheer envy that i have faced.
    I almost gave up because of this and almost sold my hogs to a fellow breeder…as soon as that breeder was known to have my poorly bred unethical hogs he was getting emails wishing to secure entire litters???From all of the very people who told you i’m unethical Roll Eyes
    What does that tell you?
    As i say i’m happy to validate every word i have said…..can they?or will they use “just friends” to fight a battle they long lost. [unquote]

    In case you haven’t been following the story very closely, Michelle is referring to other breeders who questioned her breeding practices and ethics.

    ABOUT A WEEK OR SO LATER JULIE AND HER HEDGEHOG LEO WERE DIAGNOSED AS HAVING A RINGWORM INFECTION.

    Personally I think the other breeders were right to be concerned.

  47. Here’s yet another interesting read from the sugar-glider forums:

    http://www.sugar-glider.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3050.0.html

  48. Wow talk about shooting yourself in the foot. i have recently joined some of the forums which all of these posts are on and have read through them all. i have never seen one person tell so many different stories ie. poor mum with 2 autistic sons who have had to donate their benefits to pay for the quarantine of these hoggies (who she then says were not quarantined but kept in her home) to ‘i am a millionaress’ and don’t care about the money.

    To Mario what makes you think that it is (as you say) up to you when and if you pay any money to chaz and ian when you didn’t sell sick hogs to them in the first place. it is michelle who should have paid up straight away and nothing to do with you but any caring breeder as she says she is would have paid up fast! michelle has had vets bill from both chaz and ian and could have just had the info released to her vet without the need for the paperwork so it is obvious that she has no intention of putting right her shoddy animal care and doing the decent thing and paying up.

    I breed dutch rabbits and if one of my babies went out sick i would pay up so fast! firstly because i wouldbe mortified that i had unknowingly sold somebody a sick animal and secondly because i wouldn’t want to damage my reputation so badly that only the seriously uneducated would buy from me.

    Is amazing that people like this are always the picked on and the whole world is in the wrong rather than them. Amazing how so many people can be wrong and one person right i thinks!

    Nice try in trying to make out that other breeders are making up all this stuff about you because they don’t want you around stealing all their sales but i don’t know a single one of them and have not been made bias by anyone and i can see you for what you are.

    to chaz and ian you are obviously not going to get a penny from this woman or you would have got it long ago but well done for spending so much time and effort nursing these little guys and yourselves round. we need more people like you and its a pity that the authorities are not so much more up on things to have banned this woman from keeping anything more alive that a houseplant 🙂

  49. michelle was busy saving in the 3 months she was waiting to hear from defra about quarantine so she had the right to save yes she was using all her entitlements to do that yes she has 2 disabled sons what of it? you lot always moan about the cost of quarantine and in your cases would have probably opted for the send them back/euthanasia option i bet thats why you DONT have any new lines youre all too tight to put your hands(you could all split the costs between you)in your pockets to do something good for the good of the hogs yet you can critisise a ONCE poor woman for going without BASICS to keep hers and say it is because shes in it for the money.PLEASE.yeah she sure is on her way to being filthy rich because IIIIII MADE THAT POSSIBLE unlike the undereducated few here i have some brain cells to rub together to do something better with my life ian refused michelles money SEVERAL times what was she suppose to do?believe me if i was there he WOULD have got it whether he wanted it or not because i would have taken it to him personally 😉 i am not suprised michelle has kept ian waiting after his shoddy crappy lying underhanded first post in rep uk,gutted on him for not making sure that what he was saying was true and for letting liars coherse him and dictate what he should say.so michelle did not run with her tail between her legs good for her michelle agreed to the refund BEFORE that post and what a damn LOVELY lady to continue to offer it DURING AND AFTER the post was made and EVEN NOW.save her reputation?he ruined it first then had the nerve to change his mind about the refund when he posted crap(cheeky bleep).so what was left to save exactly???even if michelle paid them the SAME DAY she was informed i doubt these narrow minded asses would ever have given her a break????and the damage was ALLLLLLLLREADDDDDDYYYYYYY done
    you ARE right though in saying michelle needs to pay i should not have to so best she sends whatever she can afford then isnt it?as for chaz all she had to do was post a letter she made several promises in the repuk post that she would send her report in about 5 weeks SO where is it?no chaz saw fit under the guise of others to be difficult to make the situation deliberately worse for michelle thats what i think michelle may have seen fit to inspect it and meet the costs of the bills if they outweighed the cost of the hog.that girl hasnt rung her once about anything would YOU suggest it wise to send the other items if there was an infection at michelles house???? i think maybe it is YOU that needs to really think why these items would not have been sent.michelle was suffering with her hands at the time also.oh dont forget to metion michelle took that hog to chaz at MICHELLES expense which took over 8 hours by train michelle registered ians and the other persons hog why would she not register 1 from an entire litter?lmfao yeah that makes sense.she wasnt given a chance to thats why chances are and what i think is that chaz went to the ukaph register before asking michelle anything i think it was all part of the ploy you see in michelles feedback in that forum chaz left positive feedback?ODD for such an unhappy customer.
    anyone has a problem with the 6 weeks insurance i suggest they contact hhc and complain michelle made about 7 or 8 requests for that to be taken off as well as her shipping policy but they seem to drag their heels a lot.
    now i am BACK and i am busy giving this LOVELY woman and our children the life they deserve i wont allow michelle to come back to this site and she will send money to ian AND chaz when chaz wants to send the report as we no longer have any of her details.
    And for who ever wants t see michelles life of grime house please see her website.
    case closed

  50. Oh dear Marius, Marius… welcome back.

    I’ll be blunt here, most of what you’ve written above is pure bollocks.

    And who exactly are “you lot”?

    You shouldn’t try to be clever Marius, because on the question of quarantine above it sounds as though you are admitting that you knew about the rules before Michelle went over to pick up the hedgehogs.

    As for the items they shouldn’t have had to be sent, they should have been provided at the time the hedgehogs were delivered, and please stop with the really really pathetic excuses about why they weren’t sent.

    It’s been pointed out on the forums by Chaz many times, she did not see Michelle’s ad on Hedgehog central, she bought Pickle from an ad on RFUK where 6 weeks vet insurance WAS included and mentioned in several emails she received from Michelle.

    Ian and Julie did not refuse Michelle’s many offers of refunds they simply did not ask for one. Michelle was the first to offer a refund at the beginning of December, and even then, only after it was reported that the German breeder’s herd were infected with ringworm. Then along you came doing your BIG MAN act and made her withdraw it.

    Chaz left her positive feedback before she got infected with ringworm. I think she’s since made what she really feels abundantly clear on the RFUK forums.

    Chaz’s hedgehog was not registered ANYWHERE.

    Breeders have not tried to import other lines from Europe because they did their homework PROPERLY and knew that the animals would have to go through 6 months of quarantine trauma.

    As a side note, there is also a post where Michelle asks about importing hedgehogs from Europe and she is told by 4 or 5 people (I think it was) that hedgehogs WERE SUBJECT TO QUARANTINE.

    You may think you are being oh so clever saying things like “I would have taken it to him [wink]” but certain people in blue uniforms and guys who wear wigs during their working day, may take such statements as being a threat.

    I could go on and on.

    So you’re not allowing Michelle to post here anymore, interesting relationship you guys have got going there…. No doubt who’s the boss.

    I was wondering why she hadn’t posted in a while. I thought it was because her lying had got her to the point where she couldn’t work out the truth from her many falsehoods anymore.

    Or is she off somewhere doing some international property deals?

    One last question are you a millionaire yet or is Michelle still living on her “entitlements” while the “royalties” pour in?

    As you brought the question of brain cells up Marius, I’d like to say that so far the only people on this blog that have demonstrated that they only have a limited number of them to rub together are you and Michelle.

    And no Marius the case is not closed.

    PS When do you think Ian and Julie will receive their money?

  51. Wow i would to to have such a controlling partner/husband that decided when and if her let me have any money and where and which sites i could visit on the internet. unless of course that is the biggest load of s**t we have all ever heard and in fact michelle is fighting a losing battle and sinking fast so she now wants somebody else to fight it for her (in walks marius)
    And i have to say that you are actually doing a worse job at keeping your story straight than her. Just a few points as you obviously aren’t the brightest button in the box marius.

    1. you say we all don’t have any decent lines because were too tight and you also say to do something good for the hogs!!
    well we are not too tight just not dumb enough or cruel enough to put these hoggies through what michelle should have put them through had she not broken the law and seen as she DID NOT quarantine them like she was supposed to she neither had to pay (out of anybody’s pocket) nor did she do anything good except expose her uk hogs to all manner of diseases.

    2. you keep going on about the fact that you have been setting up this company which will make her filthy rich but you say that she wasn’t then. in that case why did SHE WRITE herself that she is a millionairess and doesn’t care about the money for one measly hog?!?!?! also anybody who wants to correct me if i am wrong can do but i have set up my own business and i am sure plenty of people have either done it or seen others (or even just watched dragons den before) and i think we all know you don’t go from being on benefits to ‘filthy rich’ in one step. like poor and living in a filthy house to mansions in the morning. Businesses are built up over times so where is all the money going. maybe she should ask you that lol
    3. you say the damage was already done. it was nowhere near this bad. if she had paid up on day one a couple of people probably would have been cautious because of the ringworm but now noone in there right mind who has been anywhere near the forums would buy from such a compulsive liar and somebody who clearly doesn’t care for her pets or she would have had them all looked at by a vet straight away and going even further back she would have listened to the many people who said they would need quarantining and just listened to common sense that would tell you this and looked into it further!
    It seems to me marius that both you and michelle are just stalling and stalling in the hope (that like chaz) everyone will give up on the money and you can creep away and change your login names etc.
    And in response to you little thing about should michelle just pay what she can afford then… NO you are totally missing the point AGAIN!!!!!! Chaz and Ian handed their money over and all they want IS IT BACK if she cannot afford to give back what she took for them she should not be breeding. she has had since november (am i right or is it dec can’t remember now?) to get that money together to give back and if she still hasn’t had it she certainly should not own exotics as she clearly can’t afford to pay their vets bills etc if they get sick or encounter problems giving birth whilst she is breeding them!!
    I don’t know why everyone posts sensible questions for you on here because you don’t really answer any of them. I have noticed you don’t answer much really just attack other people for not sending you your 100 copies of vets bills you ask for or jumping when its demanded withing 24 hours without giving out an address. And by the way the reason why chaz told you it would take 5 weeks is because that is how long the treatment would take. and she couldn’t send you a final bill before she had one. as you were meant to be refunding the price of pickles not paying the vets bill you could have checked with the vet that leo had in fact been diagnosed and then refunded her money straight away as you did not need to know the total cost of the vets bill UNLESS OF COURSE YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO PAY HICH EVER BILL WAS LESS

    You say yes she has 2 disabled sons what of it. EXACTLY what of it. we are not the ones who brought them up and carry on doing so!! Get over yourselves and stop trying to make everyone else look bad because all it does is to make you look totally PATHETIC

  52. Marius. Just to bring you up to date on Chaz in case you missed what I said earlier.

    Chaz is no longer seeking a refund. As you know Chaz has been suffering from ME for the past six years. I can only imagine that keeping pets is one of the very few activities this disease allows her to enjoy.

    At the time she bought Pickle from you she was already seeing two separate specialists for her condition. When she got ringworm she had to add another doctor to the list. She found that her local vet had little knowledge of pygmy hedgehogs so she had to travel miles to find an exotic pet specialist.

    She found that the stress of having to travel to get Pickle and herself treated added to having to deal with you was too much for her and was seriously affecting her already fragile health. Basically she wants nothing more to do with you and who can blame her.

    So you don’t have to worry about having to pay Chaz, she doesn’t want anything from you. She has given up. If you were really serious about paying her you would contact her vet and ask her what the bill is. Or get your vet to do it. Let’s not forget either that back in November when you were “moving” she asked you for your new address. Did you send it to her?

  53. Charlie | 15/03/2009 at 3:34 pm |

    All I want to add to the comments already here is that if Michelle is on benefits and Marius is earning all this money and ‘keeping’ her then I hope that she has notified the benefits agency as she will not be entitled to much anymore. ( I work for the benefits agency so I am fully aware of how the system works).
    I too hope that she gives up keeping animals after this- her pets and customers deserve better!

  54. Ian Miles | 15/03/2009 at 3:43 pm |

    Marius I find it quite unbeleivable how stupid, and uncaring you and Shell are making each other look.
    On another point I don’t ever remember saying I didnt want the money. What I DID say is that I was NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY. But the harder you both argued about it and the more lies Shell told the more determined I got as a matter of principal. I’m not starting a multi million pound company, my parents arn’t in the hotel game and my wife is not an heiress to a fortune, so £150 is a lot to me. BUT I’M GIVING IT AWAY.
    All this came out because SHELL brought it to the world with her first post HOW THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN. We sent her a private email drawing it to her attention. Shell ruined and continues to ruin her reputation NOT me.

    Ian

  55. Thank you for dropping by Charlie.

    I’m pretty sure that if Michelle was on benefits, she wouldn’t have started selling hedgehogs and other animals without having first informed her benefits office about it.

    I’m also pretty sure that she would have also told them about Marius’ financial support.

    I mean not doing so would be very silly wouldn’t it?

  56. If you are new to this blog I urge you to click in the “Older Comments” link below this post so that you have a fuller picture of what has gone before.

    Thanks

  57. From: Ianandjulie******.co.uk
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: Ringworm
    Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:23:08 +0000

    Hi Shell
    Its OK we don’t want reimbursing for the vets bills, All we were trying to do was bring it to your attention that you MAY have a problem with your stock. When we bought him from you we undertook to keep him fit and happy.
    Give Julie a call tonight Shell to let her know the outcome. But our Exotic pet vet said he is so badly infected and the fungus is so widespread over his whole body its likely he was born with it as we have only had him 4 weeks or so.

    Ian
    —– Original Message —–
    From: Michelle Viljoen
    To: ianandjulie********.co.uk
    Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:08 AM
    Subject: RE: Ringworm

    p.s.please retain your vet receipts and details in case they’re needed at a later date.

    Hope that jogs your memory ian.
    now you have been told your refund is on the way.Anyone wanting the original copy of that email are welcome to it.
    There is nothing left to say

  58. This is also on michelles website for ALL to see.I no longer believe this is a neutral view or that the person who created this article is not known by the hedgehog community and the vindictive few that make keeping and breeding a misery for the rest of the community.We shall be using this information on our own site for future reference for all viewers to see.

  59. Good move Marius

    All you’ve done with that email is to show how reasonably Ian and Julie were acting at the start of this whole affair.

    Nobody has denied that at the beginning of all this Ian and Julie categorically stated they did not want any money from you.

    You’re grasping at straws mate.

    You seem to have edited the Michelle’s part of the email at the bottom. That wasn’t Michelle promising to take her hogs to the vet was it?

  60. For a moment i didnt think i was going to be allowed to post that email as i was put on moderation for some reason leading me to think the above
    michelle has stated that refunds will be sent as soon as possible to BOTH parties should chaz want to send hers back it will be donated to charity and proof of such sent to her or she can donate it to a charitable cause herself that is her business but she will be recieving it shortly i no longer wish to see these kinds of comments anywhere anything after this after refunds have been made will not be addressed and the matter will be taken futher

  61. Your earlier post contains more than one link (even if they are only email addresses. So it treats the message as possible spam and puts it in the approval queue. So no conspiracy.

  62. Ian Miles | 15/03/2009 at 8:08 pm |

    Marius

    Glad the computer hasnt been packed away yet as you have been saying for the last week.

    I still say I don’t want reimbursing for my vets bills or I would be claiming the almost £300 vets bills to date. I want her to pay to charity the £150 she originally PROMISED.

    Ian

  63. as ian said “On another point I don’t ever remember saying I didnt want the money. What I DID say is that I was NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY.”

    sorry but i think the above speaks for itself now everyone got what they wanted i dont have a need to clutch at straws i will leave that to everyone else in our absense the email has not been edited and is posted in its entirity on the site
    i wont be returning to the site to comment futher as i know this is what you want

  64. Marius as I said earlier I am NOT neutral. I never have been and I think that has been obvious to anybody who can read.

    What I will say is that the original 8 or so pages of the article are a true reflection of what was written on the various forums etc. All the links are there for anybody to check that and draw their own conclusions.

    I can quite honestly say I care little about what you believe Marius.

    However as again I’ve been accused of being part of this whole conspiracy theory Michelle and Marius have got going, I’ll explain again how I became involved in this.

    My first contact with anybody in the hedgehog community Marius refers to was when I contacted them to ask for permission to add their recommended breeders list to my site. While browsing their forum I came across the ringworm story and decided to give it some space. NOBODY suggested I do it. I did it because I was disgusted by Michelle’s handling of the whole thing.

    It’s simply that, whether Marius of Michelle like it or not.

  65. Before you go Marius any chance of a link to that email as I can’t find it on her site.

  66. By the way that’s great news about Michelle sending the money. I don’t suppose you have any idea about when “as soon as possible” is?

    Tomorrow? Next week? Next Month?

    “As soon as possible” isn’t very specific and could basically mean anything.

    Thanks

  67. next millenium??

  68. Ian Miles | 16/03/2009 at 5:44 pm |

    What I can say is it didnt arrive today.

    Ian

  69. it will be as soon as possible ….stop being petty

  70. i can see how wanting to know when you will get your money back 4 months after it was supposed to be refunded is being petty…. oh no maybe i can’t!

  71. Ian Miles | 17/03/2009 at 6:11 pm |

    Steph
    As I said before, it’s possibly because £150 is such a poxy insignificant ammount to them it just KEEPS slipping under the radar.
    I mean, come on, with all that going on in their high power lives how are they suposed to remember that.

    Ian

  72. i can see how they may not carry loose change around like that!

  73. Any news Ian and Julie?

    Why do I have this strong feeling of deja vu

    Oh I know it’s because we were at the exact same spot 4 or 5 months ago!

  74. 4 or 5 months since the end of december.
    Lets do the time warp again!

  75. Ian Miles | 19/03/2009 at 8:19 am |

    Sorry I didn’t report yesterday Spike but I’m getting bored with typing NO NOTHING ARRIVED YET.

    The £150 must be CRUCIAL to setting up a major international corporation.
    Well it’s £300 really isnt it because they said Chaz is getting hers as well even if she returns it.

    Marius have you settled into the new house and unpacked the computer ALREADY?
    In one of Shells last posts she said they were waiting to pack the computer or words to that effect.

    Ian

  76. Ok I exaggerated a little :o)

    But it has been certainly 4 months as your last promise to pay was at the beginning of December, not the end….

    But the main question is still

    Have you sent the money yet?

  77. i believe the report was received a week or so before christmas and an email sent to confirm and to let ian know that payment would be made after the festivities so i believe we are talking about a much much less time frame than said no ian we have not settled in our 1 million home yet but i do know that when we do it is not you or anyone else that will be looking down on us any longer 🙂 and i think the q’s you are asking are irrelivent and also chaz is our concern and we will deal with her ourselves thank you

  78. Whether it’s 3 months or 4 months, the fact remains that you promised to pay Ian and Julie before CHRISTMAS and now EASTER is drawing near and they have yet to see any money.

    The amazing thing is, that despite your many so-called apologies you still see absolutely nothing wrong in the way that you have dealt with this matter.

    You still see yourself as the victim of some kind of established hedgehog breeder led conspiracy to stop you in particular, and other new breeders, from selling hedgehogs.

    To me you seem to be so filled with self-pity that you have completely lost all sense of proportion. The real victims in this story are Chaz, Julie and Kendal who were infected by ringworm, and the hedgehogs Leo and Pickle who had to go through weeks or months of traumatic treatment.

    Any other responsible, caring breeder would have sorted this out months ago by paying the owners what they are due. You haven’t even got the common sense to realise that by continuing to procrastinate all you are doing is confirming all the criticism that has been leveled against you here and on the forums.

    It’s pathetic.

  79. i would say more like 2 months but the main thing is that they will get their money which should reach them in a couple of weeks when michelle returns from abroad and before anyone spouts their mouths off she is not on a holiday its family business the only way i would say michelle has not dealt with this according to other peoples opinions and preferences is that she publicised it originally on hhc when she sought advise from more expirienced keepers and breeders and responded to the many posts and blogs ect to defend herself what she should have done was ignored the lot instead of trying to justify herself to anyone and dealt with the persons involved in private via email whether they chose to respond to her or not that was her ONLY mistake apart from not coughing up when fingers were snapped but then had the said parties have emailed in response to her and not have blaitantly ignored her and used these kind of tactics to get money she already agreed to pay and publicity then i have NO doubts it would have been amicably dealt with long ago as for self pitying you are wrong michelle has a difficult life and has had for the past 19 years raising 2 severely autistic sons she has never ever needed anyones help to do that and has done it single handed with no help from anyone for most of that time and she never ever complains about it either i have never in my life met a stronger person emotionally unless you know her personally you have no idea or place to say other than from behind a screen and ONLY the people that know her personally have half a clue but they admire her for crap she puts up with i have said all there is to say now i wish to do as michelle and not visit here again we have found details to send money on and this is just conversation now and i have no desire to have a conversation with such people

  80. I’ll ignore your faulty time line and all the other self-serving, sympathy searching bollocks and lies.

    Is it fair to say that “as soon as possible” is two weeks? Is that from today?

  81. wow you 2 do a lot of jetting out of the country and moving house almost every week! you’d think sending such a small amount of money (for someone so rich) would be really easy with all that travelling around (must pass lots of post boxes) i do wonder how much is true and how much is a really wild imagination though! Answers from Marius/Michelle (or both in one if its just a split personality/inner alter ego thing) i know enough about cash flow in businesses that if you have enough flow to be travelling round the world all the time you can spare £300 to refund these 2 people! STRAIGHT AWAY

  82. theres nothing here that is lies(or anywhere else)”PRODUCE” your evidence “HARD” evidence that its lies you have so much to say and not a lot to back it up with. a couple of people were disappointed that michelle didnt jump when they wanted her to and if they had dealt with things like adults instead of with there own personal army lmao(talk about michelle not fighting your own battles,WHAT a JOKE)things would have turned out a lot differently think the nasty few here should go grow a spine instead of using a keyboard as a replacement
    if ian has any futher questions he can deal with it in private with michelle or not at all in future we are both done with foul mouthed asses with more bark than bite that need a ruddy good kick in the rollocks
    goodbye

  83. the business is mine not michelles and its down to michelle to pay not me you said so yourself so i dont see what my business has to do with it or you

  84. no one said michelle was travelling around the world its family related business and she will deal with it when she returns and if i can jet here there or to ten buck two thats my business aswell

  85. Hey Sunny Jim….

    You are welcome to come over here and “try” to give me a “kick in the rollocks” anytime you like ;o) Make sure you’ve got good health insurance though (i.e. not the kind of insurance you promised Chaz, Ian and Julie with your hedgehog sales) because if you tried something like that you’d need an air ambulance to ferry you back to the UK, and that isn’t a threat it’s a certainty.

    I’m not hiding behind a computer screen. If you want my home address I’ll quite happily email it you you. You can get cheap flights to Verona/Brescia with Ryan Air. I’ll even meet you at the airport so you wouldn’t have far to travel.

    I swore and will continue to swear because I’ve finally realised what kind of people/person you are. I’ve totally lost patience with your BS and you’ve managed to piss me off. My compliments because that hasn’t happened in years and I’m more annoyed at the fact that I allowed somebody like you to do irk me so much. You’re self-pitying immoral conscienceless trash. You invent absolute crap about being rich or of being on the way to being rich to try to impress people. And if it’s not you that’s rich it’s your parents. What you don’t seem to realise is just how pathetic that sounds. Let me try to be clearer NOBODY GIVES A TOSS IF YOUR PARENTS HAVE A NURSING HOME WHICH LATER TURNED INTO A FOUR STAR HOTEL OR THAT YOUR PARTNER/BOYFRIEND/HUSBAND IS EARNING MILLIONS. This might come as a complete surprise to you, but NOBODY BELIEVES YOU!

    I’d actually started to feel sorry for you. I got to the point where I felt that you were of low intelligence and didn’t just didn’t understand what was going on and that what I was doing was verging on some kind of persecution of the “stupid”. You continually contradict yourself. You’ve woven such a web of lies you don’t know where you are anymore. Do you have “learning difficulties” or “reading difficulties”? Read through what you’ve said here and on the forums. Try to work out for yourself(ves)why people might just come to the conclusion that you only have a tenuous grasp of reality.

    I could spend days pointing your contradictions out to you and write thousands of words. I won’t because you are not worth it. It’s pointless trying to reason with the unreasonable. You’ll either pay up or you won’t. I don’t think you will.

    Whether you pay up or not I’ll continue to believe that you are pathetic.

    You managed to avoid answering a straight question (again) is “as soon as possible” = to two weeks?

    A simple yes or no will do.

    And Marius (or whoever you are) I suggest you follow your own suggestion and stop posting. Every time you write something you make yourself look like a bigger twot than you already are.

  86. One last point Marius. You accuse me of hiding behind a computer but who are you? What’s your surname and where do you live?

  87. hi marius, if ou really are a seperate person to michelle which most of us are starting to doubt because like spike says you take out of your a**e so much that nobody believes a word you say!! if one story had been invented and stuck to people probably would havebelieved it but i always remember my dad telling me you need to have a really goo dmemory to be a lier and clearly you don’t have! you constantly contradict yourself and only ever answer the questions you feel like answering always going around the important ones by going on about michelles ill sons (who have been USED every time questions got tough) which only scum do! nobody decent ever uses their kids illnesses to feel so sorry for themselves and excuse treating animals/people so badly. i know a lot of people in much worse situations who are not as uncaring and downright spiteful as you. you really have cut off your nose to spite your face because this could have all blown over quietly and you could have continued breeding quietly and earned respect back quickly. however due to you dragging this out noone who looks into hedgehogs even a tiny bit could fail to realise not to touch you or your hedgehogs with a barge pole so the only kind of owners you will get buying your babies are the uneducated and unscrupulous which is unfortunately how your chain goes.
    notice nobody even talks to you as 2 seperate people anymore and you don’t even notice! i would love to bet that this hard man behind his computer will never turn up as spike suggeste. personally because i don’t think he exsists. just a rich man to go with the millionairess theme to the fairy tale me thinks. i mean where did the struggling mum and the millionaire husband/partner meet? down the local off license?? 🙂
    And in answer to spike re the low inteligence i have met people who seen to have similar kind of personalities. where they could do something in front of your face then deny it point blank. its totally delusional but they are arrogant enough to think people might actually believe them annd will never just hold their hands up and admit to ANYTHING

  88. Michelle | 21/03/2009 at 7:21 am |

    Trash?i think you need to read through you OWN posts above to discover whos who in the trash department and of a lower intellect(go back to school and learn how to spell correctly both of you for a start tuttut).I dont see where this is being dragged out when an agreement was made to pay(of no concern to you or staff btw)but you insist on bullying tactics to get anserws and find out things when it has bleep all to do with you i think you tried to start something here you thought you had which has subsequently back fired on YOU because you can’t disprove a thing that has been said and you’ve just confirmed what SORT of person you are with your threats,we have no need to impress(we’ll leave that to bruce lee here waddaaaaa!!!!)merely to make points if you raise an issue we breed animals for money we will point out WHY we dont need to and it’s as simple as that.Tough poop if you don’t believe the anserws we wont loose sleep if you don’t.As for what my mamma or Marius has PROVE she does not own a hotel or that Marius doesn’t have his OWN COMPANY afterall you’re the ones with the HIGHER than thou intellects USE IT and present your EVIDENCE,you CAN’T and it bothers you doesn’t it 😀
    I would say it bothers you a lot more than you let on as you keep raising the issue which leads me to believe you may possibly think it’s the truth.We’d happily send you all the proof in the world for you to choke on but we’re sick of being harassed and threatened here and in rfuk by wannabe ninjas.
    NOW cinderella here has spoken for the last time so all you ugly sisters can get on with it,it’s happy ever after for me and my fairy godmother and prince charming all rolled into 1.And you can like it or LUMP it.But for the record Marius wasn’t always in the money.DAMN must be his flaming lack of intellect getting him streets ahead of y’all.
    ADIOS AMIGOS

  89. Michelle | 21/03/2009 at 7:51 am |

    with regards to breeding hedgies and being able to carry on but people not touching them now because i didn’t back dow to threats,defamation and bullying……………nah never mind…………….. what you don’t know 😀
    I think i’ve given out way more information than i should or needed to.There will be none of that in future so thanks for pointing out where i was going wrong 😉

  90. Welcome back Michelle, I hope you had a good trip.

    Threaten you? Nope they only person to have made threats here implied or otherwise is your Marius dear. “Kick in the Rollocks” “deliver the money in person ;)” ring any bells? I just mentioned what would happen if he ever tried to give me a kick in the “rollocks”.

    I called you trash because of the way you are behaving not because I look down on you.

    Please point out my spelling mistakes. I know I sometimes make them. If you like we can have a little competition to see who has made the most. I’ll point yours out and you mine……

    While Marius has on several occasions pointed out that we need to grow a spine and come out from behind our computer screens, I notice that he hasn’t supplied his surname or town. Something this spineless wonder did in his second post.

    You’ve also failed to say whether “as soon as possible” = two weeks.

    The only reason this is dragging on is YOU have allowed it to.

    As for you breeding hedgehogs, I don’t care if you do or don’t. I’m pretty sure that now you are very careful about what “extras” you offer your clients before you sell and that you now make sure that you are selling healthy hedgehogs. I’m also sure that you give them your version of the events surrounding your first ever sale. What would be interesting to see is what you do when something goes wrong again.

    One contradiction I’d like to point out to Marius is this one. You offered to refund £100 to Ian and Julie at the beginning of December. It was initially £150 but after you saw the vet’s bill you decided that you shouldn’t have to pay for medicated shampoo or the worming treatment. (Do you remember Leo also had worms when he was delivered?). You did say you would pay after Christmas but around 21 December you withdrew the offer because you wanted to study the emails and forum posts etc. Until I started this blog at the end of February they had heard nothing further from you. Of course after Christmas could mean anything in your world, just like “as soon as possible”.

    If you want to keep this private just give Ian and Julie a definite date for their refund. Then nobody will have any reason to continue asking about it.

    Oh and one last thing, DEFRA continue to say that they will not allow home quarantine under any circumstances. I hope you have kept that letter you got from them safe….

  91. You forget we don’t need to prove anything. We know for a fact you are childish and it is rather amazing how you reappear from abroad or moving house every time you feel the need to say something. You can’t disprove i don’t have 2 heads but you still know i don’t! and the only one making threats was marius against spike (or you behind the name of marius more likely) i spose given people say your house is filthy you probably do have something in common with cindarella but i reckon i can picture what you look like without a photo although feel free to post one so we can all see that you are really beautiful 🙂

    Oh and talk about spelling. It was 3 o’clock in the morning and i had just feeding the baby animals i actually CARE about…. but…. my name is STEPH not STAFF!!! at least get that right if your sooo clever!!

  92. Michelle | 21/03/2009 at 4:25 pm |

    Erm i don’t recall anyone saying i WAS abroad just that i will deal with matters when i return.
    Just because marius suggested he would have liked delivering the money is NOT a threat,it ensures TOTAL satisfaction that money has been recieved and was more a form of sarcasm,believe me you would know the difference.Marius suggesting a much needed kick where it hurts,figure of speech so to speak.Why would he want to kick a couple of elderly men literally in the rollocks?
    I DON’T know for a FACT you don’t have 2 heads i’ve never met you.Siamese twin perhaps?As much as you don’t know my house was filthy if you’ve never seen it.And actually have you ever seen cinderella lol.
    And who ever told you leo was delivered?I don’t ever recall receiving an email from ian to say he was disatisfied with the initial offer.
    The way i am behaving?Just because i refuse to anserw your WHEN WILL IT BE SENT Q?Who are you to ask?And because i do NOT take kindly to initial sarcasm,insults ect?”SOME” things you ARE right about and have a right to voice certain opinion but gettig personal ISN’T NECESSARY.
    bye bye

  93. ooops you just told us marius was lying too. maybe you should read yours and his posts before you say somebody didn’t say you were abroad! just flick up the page and you will find marius said this:

    i would say more like 2 months but the main thing is that they will get their money which should reach them in a couple of weeks when michelle returns from abroad

    see ABROAD i think that means out of the country unless i am mistaken!!!!!!

    and well done for actually admitting you were in the wrong about some things! doesn’t that make you feel better to start being honest. nobody was insulting or sarcastic in the beginning in fact chaz was really really really nice about it but you just denied it being anything to do with you and turned a lot of people against you when really it could have been sorted out a lot more amicably.

    The problem is that nobody is going to believe you are anything but the bad assumptions they have made about you from your behaviour until the refunds are received by ian and chaz. if you were struggling to find the money to send back people would have understood if you told them you were struggling and offered to pay it back in a few bits or whatever but when you just say everyone you know are millionares and you are a millionairess but still don’t return the money to normal people to whom £150 is a lot of money you get peoples backs up

  94. Yawn………

    Unlike you people can understand what they are reading they will decide who made the threats.

    And by the way Marius SAID YOU WERE ABROAD, unlike you Steph hasn’t invented anything. You two (if there are actually two of you) really need to get your stories straight.

    By the way nobody is asking you to prove how rich you because nobody cares and nobody believes you anyway. You seem to believe that being or claiming to be rich will somehow earn you respect. A person’s actions earn respect and so far you have proven yourself to be a miserable failure in that regard.

    Your Cinderella quip was very apt, it’s a fairy tale and you are very good at telling them.

    Just let Ian and Julie know when you are sending the money. There’s no need for you to post here any longer. It’s pointless. All you do is try to justify the unjustifiable and make yourself look even sillier than you already are.

    Bye

  95. Michelle | 22/03/2009 at 7:12 am |

    i would say more like 2 months but the main thing is that they will get their money which should reach them in a couple of weeks when michelle “returns” from abroad
    can’t see where it says she “is” abroad,never mind it’s neither here or there is it.
    yes i did a couple of things wrong.I responded publicly for a start,i should have done what all other breeders have been and continue to do which is as you claim i was doing by brushing it under the carpet.Fact remains there are many breeders that make cock ups that do NOT have 100% satisfied customers they just don’t go all public about it.There wasn’t ONE breeder within the uk that knew ANYTHING about ringworm in hedgehogs,not ONE.And i admit i was totally thrown by it knowing sod all about it myself and never having dealt with it or anything like it myself before in over 20years of keeping animals,hence my posts in HHC where i sought their advise.
    Many had said including my vet that if it had been in my herd for which would have been quite a long period of time that there would have been some sort of visible indicator but all hedgehogs appeared healthy.
    Then i found someone who actually KNEW what they were talking about.And i am sorry for the way i dealt with things but anyone would have been pissed off with ians dictated post in repuk and how somone can come into your home like that and ridicule you over a damn tatty sofa and judge how you care for your animals based on the way your cages are stacked.I’ve seen a hell of a lot worse when purchasing my hedgehogs than any of my set ups.
    From there all the know it alls jumped on the band wagon.
    What i can say in all honesty in hind sight is that there’s not a lot i would change about how things transpired since that initial post,because now EVERYONE knows about hedgehogs and ringworm where they did not before and to me that in itself that has made the majority of this worth it.But if anyone is going to announce in public that i never sought a vet or that i mistreat my animals,breed for money or ANYTHING like that then YES i’m afraid those ak’s are comming out.
    You’re right in saying no one believes or cares about how my life has and will continue to change over the next few months,and you’re right in saying i don’t have to try and prove it either because it’s going to be “evident”in time when the royalties of hard work pay off and what i do with my money for animals from here on is going to be undeniable.
    I don’t see how i could have offered to pay installments,if i had that would also have been wrong in the majorities eye.But never mind.Cash will be in full now i have dealt with my own animals on that side of things and my rats issues are sorted.
    Now i do have family business to attend and Ian will be dealt with promptly on my return.
    Ian has my 100% guarantee on it being paid so i do not want any more sarcasm,insults or running me down for no good reason.
    This is an end to it.
    I will contact you ian on my return.

  96. how can you say thatby saying when you return from abroad he didn’t say you are abroad! you can’t return if you aint there!!

    thats just such a silly thing to say!

  97. Ian Miles | 22/03/2009 at 9:09 pm |

    Marius/Shell
    Can I just re-centre the story please as pertaining to Julie, Kendal, Chaz, Leo, Pickles and the Ringworm saga?

    I am aware that Shell has had previous problems with other established breeders and that she has been banned from certain boards for various reasons.

    THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN.

    I later became aware of Shells illegal importation of Ringworm infected hogs from Germany, the newspaper articles and controversy surrounding this matter and certain questions arising from it that are still unanswered.

    THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN.

    I am also aware that Shell has or cares for two autistic children, Commendations to her for this.

    THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN.

    If Shell wishes to set up a pet store in Ireland or a pet sanctuary, good luck to her in her venture as long as she does it in a responsible way.

    THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN.

    You state that Marius is setting up a business that will give you a big house and a better standard of living, Good luck to him in his venture I begrudge nobody success in life.

    THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN.

    The only part of your life that does concern us is from when you sold us a Ringworm infected Hog last September, Shells and latterly Mariuses handling of the matter.

    To Sum Up.

    We bought Leo home in early October.
    My wife Julie telephoned Michelle in early November to advise her that she had contracted Ringworm and that Leo had been confirmed as the source.
    Shell said she would immediately take one of her hogs to the vet and have it checked, and that as a responsible breeder she would reimburse us for all vets bills related to this problem. This was indeed the action of a responsible breeder.
    Julie then began researching Ringworm on the internet and came across Shells article on Hedgehog Kingdom I think it was entitled ‘How The Hell Did This Happen’.
    A few days later we received an email from Shell basically re-stating information gleaned from various posts but intimating it had all come from her vet.

    THIS IS WHEN THE DEFENSES WENT UP ON BOTH SIDES.

    Shell took the stance that if indeed her hogs did prove to be infected the infection must have come from US TO HER because we had a daughter that went to school and she could have brought it home to us, or that because we owned two Samoyed dogs they were the cause of the infection.
    Shell went on to say that the infection could not possibly have come from HER because she treats with worming tablets regularly.
    This is when we realised that Shell knew very little about Hogs because even we knew that Ringworm is a fungal infection not an actual worm. She did everything she could to distance herself from the problem and NOTHING AT ALL TO HELP US.
    She contacted Chaz the owner of Pickles who is Leo’s brother to ask was she having any problems. Chaz said YES she had a round red legion on her arm. Shell said she would send some treatment for her but that she would not send us any because we were shit stirring in her words.
    I was asked by various persons early on in this saga about the conditions the hogs and other pets were kept in. I GAVE AN HONEST FACTUAL ANSWER. I’m sorry if it offended you but it was factual. You are justifying the conditions by saying you were undergoing renovations. SO BE IT, it’s your home not mine, if that’s the way you choose to live.
    The rest of the story and your response to it has become common knowledge on several forums so I will not go into it further.

    What I basically want to say Marius is that you are entangling all Shells other problems and issues with ours. All Julie and I want is for you to pay what you PROMISED MONTHS ago and LEAVE US ALONE. Everything else should be dealt with as separate issues.

  98. Ian thank you for putting the focus back where it should be.

    Unfortunately I allowed myself to get dragged into a personal slagging match with these two people which should never have happened.

    Hopefully Michelle and Marius will read your comment and put matters to right.

  99. Ian Miles | 24/03/2009 at 8:24 am |

    Sounds like one of Shells or Mariuses replies.

  100. LOL

    My first spam attack. I really don’t know why people bother doing that. It takes about 10 seconds to delete all their posts.. 🙂

  101. A few statistics about this particular series of Articles.

    These articles have been published for less than a month.

    To date over 400 unique visitors have viewed them multiple times, which shows they are following the story. It’s not a huge number but it should be noted that I haven’t started “pushing” it yet (the numbers are from Google Analytics Btw).

    By pushing it I mean investing about $29 (the price of a pizza and a couple of drinks) and having it submitted to about 3000 other blogs around the Internet. If this issue is not resolved soon I will quite happily make that investment.

    It’s not a threat it’s a promise, and unlike you Michelle/Marius, I keep mine. 😉

  102. please feel free to do that if you wish we dont really give a toss because we are not in it for the money so see no reason to protect our sales.lol.
    btw ian your “opinion” on the condition of our old home is not FACTUAL in the least if it was there would be some other evidence other than your word for it and as many other reptile breeders have been in and out since and have been happy to leave animals in our care so its fair to assume your talking out of your backside or need to lower your nose a little out of the air.
    Now however the boot is on the other foot and our home is streets ahead of yours in every department 😉
    Please do not say we asked chaz for another report because we lost the first we have NEVER EVER recieved a report from Chaz and if anyone is suggesting otherwise please post proof of postage here,we will however be asking her to send it one last time and if she doesnt we will make a donation to a charity of our choosing but that is not your problem or concern.
    Now this is the first time we have been back to read up in ages and it is surely the last,you were told the money would be sent asap and it will be so theres nothing futher to add so i suggest you have a little patience and stop posting crap as some form of pressurisation because it clearly isnt working.

  103. Hello Marius n Michelle glad to hear you are now settled in your new home.
    However I must say that I doubt anybody cares whether you are living in a hovel or a palace.

    The fact that you don’t give a toss is pretty evident from the way you’ve dealt with this over the past 5 months.

    Please stop saying you are not selling hogs for the money, it just makes you sound stupid you’re not selling them for lollipops are you?

    Whether you do it to help offset the cost of breeding them or to save up for a Caribbean Cruise, money changes hands. You’d be giving them away if you weren’t “in it for the money”.

    Oh yes and I’ll post as much “crap” as I want here. After all this is my little blog isn’t it? I think my next step is to have a word with Pets Classified.

    Enjoy your new life…

  104. i think you must be mistaken spike. you can’t say what you like on your own blog. especially if its the truth 🙂

    so michelle with you saying your house is streets away from anybody elses (which by the way nobody could care less) that you are saying you have moved into a big expensive house. first point i have seen tiny one bedroom flats kept spotlessly clean and massive houses so dirty you wipe your feet on the way out so it doesn’t really mean much does it! BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY if you can afford to move into a big expensive house then why are ian and julie STILL waiting on the refund you promised them.

    all you are doing by trying to show off your new house to people who don’t care is annoying the people waiting for refunds. fair enough if you couldn’t afford it but would give them it as soon as you saved it up but just making them wait 7 months for no reason is just asking for people to hate you

  105. Ian And Julie | 05/04/2009 at 2:29 pm |

    Steph
    You are talking to Shell as though you think she has a brain, OBVIOUSLY she has not or she would have seen the harm she is doing to herself MONTHS ago by letting this go on. And as for the imaginary Marious and the million pound house. Well enough said.

  106. i know i would be gutted if i realised how many people were reading the kind of stuff she has been writing. she has done far more damage to her reputation than if she was polite and just got it sorted prompty!!!

    maybe her imaginary husband did actually send you an imaginary cheque but you couldn’t see it ecause your imagination is good enough??? 🙂

  107. maybe ya all can kiss my not so imaginary arse

  108. 😛

  109. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 1:51 am |

    LMAO must be nice and polite afterall these peeps sound like such sensitive souls:D

  110. Hi Johnnyboy/Marius/Michelle

    Perhaps time to have a word with the imaginary Social Security Services….

    By the way does the local council know you’re running a business out of your house?

    Is that legal? Time to find out…

  111. i am pretty sure benefit fraud would come into it seen as she says she is on the dole yet her husband is earning so much money. plus the breeding definately an undeclared income. the number for anyone who wants it is 0800 854 440

    i don’t personally have her address or would ring myself. the website for reporting it online is https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

    and of course with her sons being on disability allowance she will of course have provided the address for her new mansion so they will easily catch up with her 🙂

  112. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 5:40 pm |

    lmao GO for it.Would you like their number?
    My daddy will give you legal advise if you need it he’s an ex copper 😛

  113. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 5:55 pm |

    would you care for his number?he’ll soon put you straight where legal matters are concerned and if thats not good enough many of my cousins are lawyers
    Now if you don’t mind i have a family visit to get back to.
    Funny that seeing as how half the country you’re in is under rubble i thought you’d have much better things to do.what a narrow minded loser!

  114. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:02 pm |

    I offered refunds ever so nicely and that wasn’t good enough.I’m happy to let the people involved take me to court.

  115. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:06 pm |

    hope to see all you hard nuts there

  116. ok who are you johnny boy another imaginary husband??? and as far as i’m aware no one needs legal advice lol

    and nobody offered any refunds nicely. the only one who has been nice at any point was ian and he is still without the refund he was promised in december and still isn’t being nasty so just shows whoit is who actually has the most decency. certainly not dodgy breeders selling sick animals and failing to put their mistakes right choosing just to take part in slanging matches instead

    lovely people definately

    and i notice how user names keep changing as if there are any dodgy goings on i notice spike stil has his user name. so do ian and julie and guess what so do i

  117. it aint much good offering refunds and not bothering to send them. in that case i could offered everyone on here a million pounds

  118. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:23 pm |

    DONT expect any futher replies or a cheque either.I will now be making the donation where I deem fit.
    Was so easy for you ian to say ok thank you michelle i look forward to receiving the cheque and then p… OFF but you insisted in joining the others with jibes and insults so you can now forget it and you know what?theres nothing you can do about it other than ask the charity for it back.
    So be expecting your email of thanks ian 🙂
    goodbye

  119. oh and by the way people believe you have an ex copper and a hundred lawyers in your family as much as they believe you are a millionaire or have any decency

  120. we knew from the beginning michelle that you would never refund people because THATS WHAT DODGY BREEDERS DO

  121. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:28 pm |

    oh im sorry but i think its either a charity of my choice or court.
    johnnyboy is my father,have an issue with it?

  122. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:30 pm |

    Staff youre just a plonker

  123. ha ha i’m sure i am but you are most certainly not a plonker for thinking that it is in anyway up to you to decide what you should do with the money which by the way i believe will reach a charity as much as i believe i am going to grow wings and fly in the next 5 seconds and as much as anyone believed you would refund the people you sold sick animals to

  124. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:41 pm |

    the refund was agreed and that was that,but still when checking here you went on with the jibes and insults like a bunch of old F…ing women.
    Truth remains if i was in that situation i would address it as i did in the gecko posts shown here and not resort to childish insults,jibes and bitchy remarks.I still only got half my refund but i left it at that.
    A bit of mannners(not often found in britain)goes a long way

  125. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:48 pm |

    was easy enough in the begining to get a refund all anyone had to do was get off their high and oh so mighty horses and email me.
    So seeing as i am here in this article and on some list for uk dodgy breeders ect maybe i should keep my cash and live it up and actually give this shite blog a reason to have me there.

  126. You most certainly do not have manners more like a total scumbags way of speaking but never mind. In the first place me and spike have nothing to do with the people being refunded and you surely cannot expect anybody to give you the benefit of the doubt when it is now april and you still have not coughed up the money you owe to these people for selling them SICK ANIMALS

    you have changed your mind so many times about whether or not you will refund and the bottom line is this. you are a dodgy breeder, you wholly deserve to be on a dodgy breeders list because NOBODY who cared about the animals they bred would approach everything with such a stinking don’t give a toss attitude so why don’t you just crawl away and move house again the way you have done more times than i can count when you are hoping not to have to hand any money over for the hurt you have caused to the animals you profess to give a dam about and the people who trusted you enough to buy the animals from you only to regret it for a long time after

    it is totally shameful to know that there are human beings like you exsisting on our earth but unfortunately your still here! plenty of damage caused to your reputation by you alone but still here refusing to do the decent thing all the same

  127. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 6:53 pm |

    btw staff why dont you go purchase from someone find a problem and post all the shite i had posted about me on a public forum like rfuk and then go ask the person for a refund and see what they say.See if like me they will agree to it as soon as they can or tell you to f..k off lmao

  128. if it had been easy to get a refund then ian and chaz would have been refunded and i cannot think of anybody who deserves to be on that list more than you. even if you refunded them right now (which we all know you have no intention of doing) then you would still deserve to be on that list because making someone wait that long for a refund for dodgy goods is despicable but you wouldn’t even try to put it right so long after

  129. everyone was really nice to you until you started messing around not giving refund right away. both ian and chaz were really good about it and i still don’t get why you didn’t just refund them then when you could have without ruining your reputation. ok so you have been rather childish on here but surely you are not stupid and surely you are not as bad a person as you make yourself come across so surely you must have known that by messing people around they were going to get mightily pissed off?

  130. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 7:09 pm |

    So long???3mts..wtf emails were sent to say once christmas was out of the way i would deal with it.What emais did i get?
    Why the hell should i chase people when they have been more than happy to ignore emails and go public to look good?
    Dodgy goods?excuse me we are talking about a lives here not some dodgy goods and those hedgies were just as good as anyone elses.Are you saying i knowingly sold with ringworm?
    Why dont you look at some of the uk’s breeders ethical policies stating that once a hedgie leaves they are no longer responsible for it or any vet fees incurred by the new owner,or that they are not responsible for TREATABLE illnesses OR that if it is outside of the 4 week guarantee refunds ect are void.
    YES i do try to put it right but where the hell is everyones manners?
    Noone has any and thats my problem with this situation.

  131. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 7:13 pm |

    I have said here EXACTLY why.
    Ian had said he wanted me to donate to a charity it clearly states so in repuk but he never states to which,and doesnt bother pming or emailing thise details.First time he made his requests known fully was here.
    As for Chaz i am within my right to ask to see a vet report,whats wrong with that.Any breeder would ask the same.just the same as if the animal dies and a necropsy was required,theres no way a breeder will act without that necropsy report is there?

  132. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 7:19 pm |

    and to ask for some manners in the meantime while ian was waiting costs nothing.The british have to be some of the rudist people i have ever met in my life.

  133. i am not going to argue about it you clearly think you are in the right all i will day is that making anybody wait 3 months is disgraceful. whatever anything says about the animal not being your responsibility once it leaves you i don’t mean rules i mean having morals and you know as well as i do that lots of things were sent to you that you claimed not to receive and chaz gave up as it seems you were hoping she would due to ill health and realising how much difficulty she was going to have getting a refund as shown by the fact ian still has non. ian said in the beginning he would like you to donate the money but this was before you dragged it out and he lost any trust in the fact that you would make the donation and also he should make it not you so you get all the credit.

    i have always believed most people are actually ok and just get their backs up and act stupid sometimes but i have to say i can’t see anything from you other than somebody who knows they sold sick animals (whether or not you knew at the time you did nothing to resolve so just as bad really) and seems not to care.

    as i have said before i would e totally mortified to realise people thought so badly of me and i would be paying up fast to keep my reputation

  134. you british then?!?!?

  135. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 7:48 pm |

    Just because i didn’t do things as you lot wanted did NOT give you the right to throw around jibes,insults,get personal and generally take the piss.
    now this is a closed book for me,and not one i shall reopen.do what ya want say what ya want from here on.

  136. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 7:54 pm |

    youre claiming i received chaz’s vet report then you/she will have a valid tracking code?please do post it.

  137. i won’t be posting anything as it aint me who sent it ut just because she has now given up on the notion of you being a decent breeder i cannot prove whether you received anything or not just know that i send around 300 items with royal mail each week and also use email regularly and find it to be a massive coincidence that you don’t receive anything. to you it is a closed book becasue as a breeder you do not care about your animals but to most people they just want the world to know who and what you are soi just hope spike misses out on his pizza and drinks and gets the word around!

  138. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 8:08 pm |

    Ian will have his donation,whats the saying better a bit late than never.
    And if chaz will send her report i will also take care of her.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else here,about as much as it has to do with my nearest neighbour,i don’t care if you’re the mother teresa of animals it’s still not your business and never has been.It is between those INVOLVED.
    thank you for your “Concern” & goodbye

  139. you were the one who posted publicly and got defensive and nasty so you dragged everyone in and kept it going by arguing with anyone who would keep still long enough so byeeee

  140. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 8:16 pm |

    That’s right you can’t prove it because it isnt true.thank you.
    Spike can have his pizza and eat it quite frankly my dear i don’t give a damn.Just be warned that just because a refund is not received for 3mts does not give a person the right to post whatever they like without being legally liable for what they say,best you all take that into account in future.

  141. oooh i’m scared you’ll sue me now. for being honest and saying you are a sh*t breeder. sue me 🙂

  142. Good job Michelle,

    With your last few posts you’ve just demonstrated what a pathetic human being you really are.

    Nothing I, steph or anybody else could have achieved it with such eloquence.

    Only someone of your ilk could have made such a cheap jibe at the expense of the deaths of several hundred people, and the making homeless of a further 17,000.

    As I said you’re truly pathetic and I pity you to be honest.

    You’re shameless dear.

    I’m not sure I can stomach much more of you stop posting please go away and get on with your pathetic, pointless little life.

  143. sorry spike i may have just stooped almost down there to her level but i’ll sssshhhhh now. i’m off in the bath anyways cya soon!

  144. And yes Michelle you are right… Chaz didn’t send you the report. I made a mistake.

    Please get your cousins to sue me.

    Please!

    Then we can all have fun in court.

    As far as I know having an opinion has still not become an indictable offence in the UK.

    So let’s make it easy for you:

    In my opinion (Paul Murphy)

    You are a pathetic human being.

    You are a liar

    You are dishonest

    You sell Hedgehogs for money

    You are dodgy

    You are pitiable

    (did I already mention how pathetic you are)

    You make me sick

    Please go away

    Thanks

  145. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 8:33 pm |

    Actually some of the most “HIGHLY “regarded breeders do NOT have a 100% customer satisfaction rate.It’s knowledge is quiet because they chose to keep it quiet.That’s a FACT.
    Deal with it.
    I am not a shit breeder if i can come out publicly about concerns for advise and then deal with the “hitlers” like yourself sticking their big noses in manipulating and dictating.Go draw yaself that lil tash on ya top lip 😀
    And if i had whs,or deformaties(like many “HIGHLY”regarded breeders ) i will also go public with that.

  146. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 8:37 pm |

    No Paul you are the pathethic 1.all you have on your mind is this when people have lost their lives.Sorry but i do not live there,you DO.
    You still find time for this shit.
    Sorry but YOU are the pathetic 1.
    bye

  147. Johnnyboy | 07/04/2009 at 8:41 pm |

    p.s.it wasn’t a jibe i’m serious you’re either not from italy or you’re a sad loser finding nothing better to do at such a time but to put someone down.
    shame on you

  148. I seriously can’t be bothered, just go away Michelle

    You’re sick

  149. Holy cow – is this STILL going on!!?? I’m absolutely stunned, shocked and disgusted at the way this despicable ‘breeder’ is treating her ‘clients’.

    Why is it necessary to post under so many names marius – you’re just as bad as Michelle, how many aliases do both of you need to post under? Do you think these people are stupid enough not to be able to recognise your posts even under a different name it was blatantly obvious who Johnnyboy was!

    Have some self respect for crying out loud!! Pay these poor people their money and draw a line under it! As for having a waiting list what a crock of SHIT!!!!

    I’m Tracey from the above named Sugar Glider Forum and it was obvious from day one HH (Michelle) was only interested in making money! She certainly wasn’t interested in listening to those experienced keepers and breeders that were offering advice! And she certainly wasn’t interested in the welfare of her sick glider!! I wasn’t privy to the ‘warnings’ the mods had from various sources, but I didn’t need to see them!

    Oh – and what else has just dawned on me, you say your day was a copper? I thought they ran a 4* hotel?

  150. Hi Tracey.

    Don’t worry i’m sure her dad is also superman, a flying pig and whatever else she needs to call upon on any given day. she has made sooo much stuff up that its difficult even to remember half of it just that whenever you call upon her contradictions she either moves house or says she’s not going to post anymore then stays to post more insults and say stupid stuff about other breeders not having a 100% success rate as if that is a reason to not be bothered about being such a disgusting person who clearly couldn’t care less about any of her animals except how many babies/pound signs she can get from them.

    unfortunately for every unscrupulous breeder there are going to be unscrupulous people who will actually buy these poor animals rather than travelling/waiting for a decent breeder who has babies but i for one warn everyone i come across and hopefully the many other people who have read this story will do the same!!

    They do say that a satisfied customer will tell 3 other people but an unsatisfied customer will tell 10 so with that in mind eventually she will hopefully not be able to give a baby animal away never mind sell it

  151. I think admin had the best idea – $29 and the blog gets sent to 3000 other blogs, put links on forums to this blog – shame her in to giving the money back! I don’t know how anyone can be so brash!

    Oh, btw, Michelle had a tantrum on SGF and deleted her own account – she then went crying to her superman other half telling him someone had deleted her account! He then accused the admins of all sorts of things! The admins were completely baffled until they managed to suss out what had happened. Lol! Petty, pathetic, I’m pretty sure these two can’t even lie straight in bed! LMAO

  152. Ian and Julie | 08/04/2009 at 11:07 pm |

    Hi Spike

    I will send you a donation of $29 if you can get this posted on other blogs.
    Julie and I are resigned to the fact that Michelle will never actually send the donation and that she is still in a position where she can still put other people through the ordeal that we have gone through with Leo.
    We have been away for a couple of days and I was shocked when I saw she was posting again under yet another assumed name and how thick and fast the posts were flying.
    Spike seing as its only Julie and I who have directly been harmed by this woman are we in a position to legaly do anything?
    It’s petty vengance I know but its all we can hope for.
    If not perhaps we can ask for donations to start a hit fund.

    Ian & Julie

  153. i for one would also donate towards getting this posted on other blogs (or towards your hit fund 🙂 i’m not fussed which!) let us know spike because i am also happy to make a donation to get the word out about this woman!

  154. Tracey she posted on reptile forums uk saying she had left because she had put quite a few noses out of joint but she still visits as a guest apparently

  155. It’s true that dissatisfied customers will tell 10 others. I do it all the time. I orginally had searched online because I wanted to research about owning a hedgehog as a pet. This was one of the sites on top of my search results. After reading all this I now have many matters to keep in mind when looking for responsible breeders.

    Also, while reading, I kept thinking about as to why do they keep saying bye and stating they would not come back only to find about 2-3 comments in a row all by them…

    And please note this last part: I am in no means trying to pull this out, just wanted to put it out there that I’m glad I was able to find more information on what I was looking for. Thanks for the article.

  156. Ian & Julie – have a word with the citizens advice bureau, maybe they could point you in the right direction? I think something should be done about this woman, the way she has behaved is completely unacceptable!

  157. Sorry for not replying sooner I had a wee break over Easter.

    Thanks for dropping by lin. The initial idea behind the article was to tell the story to let people know that they have to be careful about who they are dealing with. I’m glad you found it useful.

    I’ve looked a bit further into the buying links thing, but unfortunately doing so would probably get my blog removed from Google’s index, which would defeat the object.

    To get the story out to more people, you guys could help by writing “Have you seen this awful story” type posts on any pet forum you come across with a link to the “Introduction” page of the ringworm story. Unfortunately I can’t do it as the forums would probably think I am promoting my own blog at their expense.

    Tracey, Michelle has no self-respect she’s a pathetic excuse for a human being in my opinion and her tasteless jibe trying to use the deaths of several hundred people to somehow make me feel bad about writing here on my blog is ample evidence of that.

    Ian and Julie, I looked at the small claims website. You could actually make a claim online. Unfortunately as they say there, even if you win the claim there is no guarantee that you will get your money.

    Given that this woman is still living in the same house despite all grand claims of having moved (yet more lies) and is probably living on benefits I doubt you will see a penny even if the court finds in your favour.

    If you feel strongly enough about it you could try taking out criminal charges against her, stating that she caused Julie and your daughter physical injury by her negligent actions.

    She illegally imported the ringworm infected hedgehogs from Germany. Had they been put into quarantine for six months it is likely that the disease would have been noticed. As they weren’t and she “quarantined” them herself, she managed to spread the disease to the other hedgehogs in her herd and subsequently to you.

    I’m sure there must be a law covering it somewhere. I think if the police got involved they would look at vet records and medical records. You would then get to find out just what that infection on her hands really was.

    You may even have a case for suing Defra as they certainly don’t seem to have done their jobs properly. Is there a programme like Ester Ranzen’s old one out there? They might be interested…

    Steph I think she is living in Chaingate Avenue, Southend, at least that is the address that she gives in the newspaper article about illegally importing her hedgehogs.

    Anyway I hope you all had a happy Easter 🙂

  158. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 8:25 pm |

    what are all you old women flapping about still?
    ian and julie were told they would have satisfaction,isnt that enough?and that will be when i have my rats are sorted,sorry cant say when that will be.when they get it is not anyone elses concern just because they bought a hedgehog from me did not give them the right to talk to me or about me like dirt or to go about things the way they have and considering the way they went about it i think they should be grateful.
    Tracey maybe you should read the article with your glasses ON before commenting in future,did you see where it said my father is an ex copper?lol oh i’m sorry i forgot i was talking to under acheivers who do nothing quite as well as they gossip.And for your info also i did not have a spack attack in sgf i left and i didnt bitch about it either.My partner was APPROACHED and asked why i left,i was invited back(its in rep uk posts)i DECLINED.
    For people who don’t seem to care or believe what i do or do not have or any of my family for that matter you sure do go on about it an awful lot.lmao.The moment you can DISPROVE with EVIDENCE anything about it let me know 😉
    Please feel free to post anywhere you like,it doesnt really matter to me.I’m not in it for the money so go ahead knock yourselves out 😀
    p.s.my bf is Rambo actually not superman 😛

  159. oh so its not marius he has yet another different name now its rambo. wow we must keep up guys!

    i can’t believe you actually think that ian should be GREATFUL!! to you for selling them a sick animal then doing nothing to rectify it. no refund and not even taking your own hogs straight to the vets. wow i can see what they should be greatful for!!! scum thats all i have to say!

    and thanks spike i will see about filling this form in. could you remind me of her surnames made up and otherwise please 🙂

  160. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 8:46 pm |

    i forgot to mention spike you claim you made a “mistake” regarding chaz’s vet report being sent to me,funny that since i was accussed of “LYING” about it several times.If i had made such a mistake it would be termed “lies” or a “contradiction”.However it’s a clear indicator that you did not have all your facts straight so clearly points out the incompitance of your standard of work and information here,and as yet i have not seen here anywhere or anywhere else any clear “evidence” of any of the claims made other than ian and julie changed their minds about wanting a refund which they never asked directly for to begin with instead wished to do so publicly?hmmm suspect,anyway they will get it in due course.
    That’s my final take on things
    thank you

  161. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 8:52 pm |

    oh let me remind you its fountain,viljoen or is it?.If that helps 😉
    excuse me i sought my vets advise,it’s down to you to “prove” otherwise.
    Ian and julie wanted me to take their vets advise well i’m SO sorry but their vet is not responsible for MY hedgehogs.Are you claiming my vet to be incompitant,so incompitant that none of my hedgies have ringworm STILL?lmao

  162. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 8:55 pm |

    sorry but my vet isnt into getting rich quick at mine or my animals expense.

  163. “sorry but my vet isnt into getting rich quick at mine or my animals expense.”

    ooh that should be branded a michelle comment!

    both of those names are helpful thanks michelle the dwp do ask for alias’s aswell so thanks!

    Due course…. that usually means in a timely manner which this hasn’t been done in. why don’t you just stick with one story and admit you aren’t going to pay up for the suffering your shoddy breeding has caused. you have said it enough times and everybody knows it so you should have maybe just stuck with it.

    oh by the way i see your back again michelle. considering you hate us all so much you just can’t keep away. you have posted your last comment and gone away so many times we all just wish you would actually stay away at some point!

  164. I care little about what you think Michelle. You’re obviously too thick to understand that your credibility has been shot to hell and back and any protestations you may make are falling on deaf ears.

    I certainly do not believe you are in any position to judge whether my work is sic “incompitant” or not. I do however apoligise to you for for the mistake I made about Chaz’s report.

    As the point has been raised, I feel I owe to my readers an explanation of how the mistake came to be made.

    The Chaz report error was a genuine mistake on my part. In my defence I can only say that anybody that has taken the time to read through the various forum posts that were used to write this story, will realise that there is a hell of lot of information to take in. While I have made every effort to be as scrupulous as possible this one error got through.

    The confusion arose because in one post Chaz says that Michelle had written an email to her saying that she had lost the report Chaz had sent her. From this I naturally assumed that the report had been sent and that Michelle had either lost it or was stalling for time. I misread the post. It’s as simple as that.

    If anybody finds any other errors in the story please let me know.

  165. considering michelle has conflicted in her lies so many times i hardly think she can pick you up on one mistake in such a well written article.

    at least your mistake was an honest one!

  166. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 11:10 pm |

    ok apology accepted since you admit you assumed.So what else has been assumed,mistaken,lied about here.nm.
    i rest my case.

  167. LOL

    It’s simple dear. If you think there are any other errors here please point them out. Then I’ll address them, as I did with the previous one.

    Or is that too complicated for you for you to understand?

  168. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 11:32 pm |

    There are so many i would hardly know where to begin but i think i have pointed them out all through this aticles comments.
    i’ve said my piece.
    my time here is completed,i understand that much.
    That is all

  169. she would much rather play the victim or think that because you had made one error in a rather long and complicated story that she can ‘rest her case’ and think anybody will change their mind about the kind of person she is. problem is that the story only went a small way to discrediting her but her comments afterwards are what have really made people think she is such a pathetic, stupid person. if i was going to make such wild stuff up i would at least read my posts back to make sure i wasn’t proving myself to be a liar a few posts later like the i wasn’t abroad thing which was pretty poor even by her standards

  170. MICHELLE | 15/04/2009 at 11:35 pm |

    As stated time and time again steph PROVE IT or DISPROVE it.
    Bye bye

  171. bye again. feel a bit like i am talking to a parrot now!!

    i don’t need to prove anything. you forget that you reputation is so bad that you need to prove anything you say before anyone would believe it. i don’t!

  172. No you haven’t pointed anything out.

    What you have done is contradict yourself time and time again. As Steph said you actually made yourself look like a much bigger fool by your often silly and childish comments way beyond anything I, Steph or any other of your critics could have done in a million years.

    Your main problem is that you think you are being clever, unfortunately for you that is not the case.

    Anybody with half a brain would have paid up long ago or simply ignored this blog.

    The kind of shit you’re pulling with Ian and Julie is simply disgusting. And there you are trying to play the poor innocent victim of some kind of Hedgehog/sugar-glider breeder conspiracy. You just don’t get it do you? You’re so pathetic, self-centred and self-pitying that you just can’t understand why anybody would object to the way you handled this. Read through what you’ve said on the forums and here…. Get a clue!

  173. I wonder if anyone has actually forwarded this to DEFRA with a complaint about how things weren’t done properly and as a result people lives and health have been affected, which I think is negligence on their behalf for not upholding the quarantine procedures once they were aware of Michelle’s smuggling? (ignorance is not an excuse).

    And Michelle – the only reason you were invited back to SGF is because we were worried about your gliders, it had nothing to do with our feelings for you! I wanted them to repost some of your (and your O/H’s) unpleasant posts so that I could post links to them on here but they decided it would serve no purpose, you’ve already made a complete idiot of yourself and shown just what kind of person you are, so there’s no need to add to that. :oD

  174. Hmmmm – another thought, how about going to The Sun (or other similar ‘quality’) newspaper, I’m sure they’d LOVE a story about broken quarantine laws, official bodies being aware but neglecting their duties and how it’s affected the health of the people involved! Lets get it out there!!!

  175. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 3:42 pm |

    YAY now thats the FIRST INTELLIGENT comment anyone has made through this entire sage.Well done 😉

  176. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 3:43 pm |

    “saga”

  177. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 3:45 pm |

    one word though my hedgies were not smuggled you daft mare.Unless i had them in my ass.

  178. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 4:06 pm |

    maybe also a good point is to raise the fact that the uk border controls are totally backward(customs)in doing their duties too.And let’s just remember who’s lives have been most effected by the uks backwardness,it is neither ians or chaz’s.Ringworm is more common than anyone realises and is also contractable in the uk believe it or not,rabies isn’t,also ringworm isn’t life threatening,there was also a 3rd party involved who kept the hedgies in their home in holland until i was able to collect them,the whole dutch family never contracted ringworm?so then it’s fair to assume while the breeder had some reports of ringworm in her herd the ringworm in mine cannot be guaranteed to have come from her.It may have even have come from the kennels in which they were kept on the ferry.Who knows?
    But yes i agree with you totally.Let’s get it out there.

  179. OOps posted this earlier in the wrong thread:

    This is from your first post on Hedgehog central. Please note the date.

    [QUOTE]

    How the hell did this happen?

    by heavenlyhogs on Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:59 am
    I need some adivise please..I just heard this minute by email that one of my hoglets owners has discovered and confirmed the hoglet has ringworm……

    [UNQUOTE]

    These are your words Michelle, not mine.

    I’ll try to make this simple for you: November, December, January, February, March, April…. Now say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6…

    There you go…. got it?

    You started promising to pay at the BEGINNING of December saying that you would pay after Christmas.

    Nobody here is abusing their so-called position in the hedgehog community to belittle anybody. You don’t seem to understand that. What people are doing is condemning the way you have dealt with and continue to deal with this.

    Thank you for reminding me about Defra. I fully intend writing to my MP about that as the whole thing is very strange. Defra say one thing and you say another.

    As for being dishonest, read through your posts here and on the forums and examine your conscious.

    Please feel free to link your site to this one.

  180. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 4:17 pm |

    you lot are fkn crazy if you think i intentionally smuggled potential rabies into the family home with my children and other pets.Please stop talking shite.Rather address your own countries failings incompitance and neglect. 😉
    My only mistake was not rushing money to ian and julie in january as promised,but then i didn’t expect my rat to become ill and for it to cost hundreds to put right.They’ll get their money donated to hedgehog welfare as requested,that’s the main thing.
    Heavenlyhogs

  181. What country are you talking about?

    And see you’re twisting the truth again dear…. You promised to pay them after Christmas. Then just before Christmas you sent them an Email saying that your partner was going to study all the emails, forums etc before he paid. That was the last they heard from you until this blog article appeared.

    The first we heard about your rats being sick was a couple of weeks ago. 3 months after your later withdrawn promise to pay.

    Apart from all that you’ve constantly boasted here and on other forums that you or your partner are millionaires… So I don’t see why you can’t pay a measly £150.

    Can you perhaps understand why it is difficult to believe anything you say?

  182. Michelle you can try to twist and turn and slither as much as you want but know and we know that the chances are very very high that your hedgies picked up the ringworm infection at the German breeders.

    Whether they picked it up in Germany, Holland or on the Boat is pretty academic. You should also know that not everybody that comes into contact with an infected animal will catch the disease.

    You cleverly made sure that nobody would be able to say whether the German hedgies were infected by not taking them to the vet as you promised to do on several occasions. Nobody is saying that vet’s fees are not expensive, but one cardinal rule about ANY pet ownership is if you can’t afford to get your pet treated by a vet when necessary you shouldn’t be keeping them.

    You’ve basically got a zoo in your dining room, I would hate to think what the fate of your pets would be if several more of them got sick at one time.

  183. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 5:06 pm |

    Yes,my oh offered to pay it then so he was entitled to see what had been going on and see copies of the vet bills.My situation at the time on top of christmas wasn’t good.
    Obviously i have a very busy lifestyle with 2 disabled kids and so much else going on it would have cost ian and julie nothing to make contact for ONCE in private.What was the sense in me contacting THEM for donation details when i was being ignored?
    I don’t see where we have boasted at all,we gave the facts as they are.If someone is going to make us out to be a couple of filthy peasants who have no ambition in life other than to breed our pets for profit then yes we shall defend that and have done.So my oh has his own company and a fantastic new house.AND?I for 1 am very happy and proud of his acheivements,i shall shout it from rooftops if i please.
    Back to the topic which was always about a refund and never about personal opinion our personal lives or anything else.Refunds/donations are being made.
    I think that anserws your question.

  184. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 5:17 pm |

    You see thats where you are wrong again,my vet was contacted IMMEDIATELY and made aware of the situation.And one of my hedgies was taken to my vet to be checked,how my vet chose to deal with it from there on was up to them since they were responsible for my pets noone else!
    I think after a while it was more than evident that the infection originated from here regardless of whether it was german lines or not.
    Babies then also went on to be tested as said somewhere back through the comments.
    And excuse me but any pet of mine that has ever needed a vet has done so immediatly.Hence my paying £200 in rat vet fees ffs.And god only knows how much in as many months.
    How many animals i have is neither here nor there,they are all well cared for and want for nothing and that includes a vet when they need 1.

  185. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 5:20 pm |

    And yes i had 2 sick rats actually that came from their fosterer with a possible virus that may have gone on to infect all 17 of them and i HAVE

  186. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 5:21 pm |

    paid out through my backside to test them and clear the problem up.No expense spared.

  187. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 5:38 pm |

    And i think your statement on people who can’t afford a private vet is ludacrous.Many people keep animals and use the p.d.s.a when a vet is needed.Just because someone has to resort to benefits for a time through choice or not or is elderly or anything else does not mean to say they are not entitled to own an animal or are any less worthy of owning an animal.
    I myself have only ever resorted to the p.d.s.a on 1 occassion with my rats which was just after christmas when one of my boys was near death.The p.d.s.a are no less a vet either,in fact i have found them far more professional than many private vets.

  188. I can’t believe you dragged your disabled sons into this again… going for the sympathy vote yet again? What on earth do they have to do with anything?

    You failed to answer my question… What country were you talking about with your second attempt at a cheap tasteless jibe?

    Whether your OH had a right to know or not the end result was that you paid nothing.

    Your rats got sick long after this story began you can’t use them as an excuse for not paying.

    If I remember rightly you said that you telephoned your vet and he/she told you to treat as a precaution OVER THE PHONE without seeing the animal. Something that nobody believes any vet who wants to keep his/her license would ever do.

    From what I can remember (I’ll check later) you took one hedgie to the vet several weeks after the initial outbreak, after you’d been treating it for ringworm. There’s a long discussion where you come up with the excuse of needing 3 negative results before it is possible to say whether an animal if free of the disease or not. People were trying to point out that the idea was to find out if they were positive first.

    Whether Ian and Julie decide to donate the money to a charity or not is THEIR business all you should do is send THEM the money. Instead of that you just want to play your stupid little game.

    As for them not contacting you in private… Why should they? You made this whole thing public not them.

    I’d be interested to know where all the support you talk about is coming from… Please ask them to post here so we know who they are and what they have to say. So far the only person to say anything in your favour is somebody you were giving a free pet hedgehog.

  189. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:08 pm |

    The uk officials that deal with imports ect,customs ect.It’s not a jibe it’s a fact that they failed miserably at their jobs.
    I was pointing out i have enough to deal with in caring for my sons i don’t need a sympathy vote anyone with such a job will know that,i don’t see why an email is asking too much,where are they too busy or have anything better to do?THEY requested IIIIIIIII MAKE the donation so then it’s up to them to send details not for me to send email after email and be ignored.Erm how long was i to play that game for?
    As for support YES i do have some you know,more than expected but why should these people post here?afterall they keep and breed themselves.And they think it is way blown out of proportion.As for the lady you refer to she is my rat breeding mentor and NFRS member and not posting just because she was getting a free hedgehog lol
    What’s wrong with making this public?It’s a dodgy breeder that likes to keep these things hushed.I don’t regret that decision not for a moment.Still didn’t give them a right to post bull on me having a criminal record i didn’t have.
    Anyway this to and throwing stopped being productive long ago.
    i’ve said i shall sort the refunds.and thats that.

  190. So you think it’s ok for someone on benefits to spend hundreds of pounds on an exotic pet thinking that it doesn’t matter if it gets sick because the PDSA (a charity that depends on donations) will sort it out for me?

    You don’t think that’s a little bit irresponsible?

    It doesn’t sound like relying on the charity of others to you?

    It doesn’t sound like taking the piss to you?

    How come you had to use the PDSA you were claiming to be a millionaire long before Christmas?

    You still haven’t answered my question about which country.

  191. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:16 pm |

    if someone wants an exotic and saves hard for it then why should they not use the pdsa if they really HAVE to?You py as much for a dog as any exotic pet ffs.Get real.
    And i always said my parents were wealthy…don’t ever recall saying i was.Even if i’m an heiress to it.

  192. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:19 pm |

    well at least not until my partner set up his own business which was fairly recently and got a 5year guaranteed contract for a guaranteed X amount.

  193. I meant this statement:

    you lot are fkn crazy if you think i intentionally smuggled potential rabies into the family home with my children and other pets.Please stop talking shite.Rather address your own countries failings incompitance and neglect. 😉

    You weren’t talking bout the UK after all you live there. If you were talking about Italy please note that I am not Italian, I am Welsh, and as far as I know Wales is still part of the UK.

    What you were actually doing is trying to make another tasteless jibe at the expense of over two hundred people who died in and the 20,000 that were made homeless by a recent earthquake in Italy.

    As usual you fail. You also avoid further discussion about points you are pulled up on.

    For example I take it that you now agree with the fact that it has been 6 months since you YOU confirmed the ringworm infection on hedgehogs central?

  194. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:25 pm |

    And tbh i would rather give my cash to the pdsa knowing it will go to good use than some of the toss pot vets i have dealt with.

  195. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:29 pm |

    no spike,i meant deal with your own countries failings as in D’OH the uk,i know a guy with a name like paul murphy aint italian ffs pmsl. as in defra,as in customs of the UK.
    I don’t debate that it’s 6 mts since ringworm was confirmed well 5 actually what i do debate is that no one has been waiting 6 mts for a refund.

  196. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 6:50 pm |

    I would be very very happy for anyone to contact defra their mp or the flaming queen to address their concerns.But the fact remains i have all 3 imported hogs still so if defra are not kissing and telling then why haven’t they been euthanised or quarantine ENFORCED when it’s common knowledge and always has been that i have them.If i smuggled them in intentionally why would i announce i had them and where they came from publicly here in the uk forums and other forums in other countries?erm?
    Remember i approached defra about them myself.

  197. michelle if you can afford to save up to pay to imoport hedgehogs you should not be on benefits. i work to pay for people like you to buy all these animals through my taxes and i couldn’t afford to import hedgehogs so you were clearly getting more than you should or just not paying it towards your disabled sons as it was intended. If your sons are so disabled that you need to keep mentioning how busy you are with them that you can’t deal with the sick animals you have sold then maybe you should get rid of some of your many animals so you could spend some more time with your sons and have more money for them rather than spending it all on your many hedgehogs, beardies, sugar gliders, rats and whatever else you have. why don’t you just save your poor animals and rehome them seen as you say you have no time, you use vets that are there for people who really need them not those who just spend all their money buying too many animals. For your sons and animals sake you should REALLY think about rehoming them although make sure you warn of any untreated infections to the new owners!!

  198. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 7:05 pm |

    The ONLY breeder who contacted me to make me aware of the rabies threat was the a TRUSTED breeder who URGED me to sort it out with defra.
    NONE of these so called “reputable” “responsible” “respected” “ethical”breeders bothered to put the welfare of myself,my children,my animals or anyone else i came into contact with before their own personal grudges and inform me of the danger.
    My god what wonderful examples to the community they all are.
    I wouldn’t care how i felt about someone i could never go so low.

  199. I cannot believe that you are trying to blame the hedgehog community for your own stupidity and ignorance!

    You are really beyond the pale.

    Unbelievable…..

    I would like to remind you that on the RFUK forums you asked about importing hedgehogs and everybody that answered said that you would have to quarantine them.

    You ended the discussion with a post saying that they didn’t need quarantining.

    You imported the animals not them. I don’t even know if they were even aware of the fact that you had imported them.

    You’re not right Michelle, seriously, seek psychological help.

    Try to learn to take at least responsibility for your actions rather than blaming everybody else.

  200. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 7:12 pm |

    get rid?
    yeah right you’re having a laugh.I went and got the hedgehogs myself.Who said I paid for them?or that you did as you put it?
    I paid tax in my time you know and my family pay handsomely towards the same taxes you refer to.
    My life has always been dedicated to animals and my being on benefits was never a life time thing.I am capable soon of putting back in and working my arse off like everyone else and paying again the same taxes you’re refering to.

  201. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 7:16 pm |

    i never said i blamed the community.
    Of course that is down to the very people we all rely on for the necessary information i.e.defra
    what i said is that i could not willingly know that someone unknowingly exposed themselves and their children to rabies and not say a word about it because of personal difference.I never said the community was to blame.The blame lies with defra and customs.

  202. they didn’t not say a word about it they said they needed quarantining and you chose not to listen. seriously use your brain before posting.

    i agree with spike. you need help! no actually i think your probably beyond it. you are a pathalogical liar and not even a good one at that. why don’t you just crawl under your stone again!

  203. So you didn’t mean to say this:

    NONE of these so called “reputable” “responsible” “respected” “ethical”breeders bothered to put the welfare of myself,my children,my animals or anyone else i came into contact with before their own personal grudges and inform me of the danger.

    Here you are saying they put your family at risk….. because they didn’t tell you about the danger? Did you even ask them?

    YOU IMPORTED THE HEDGEHOGS Hellloooooo!!!

    They did not bring them into your house, YOU DID.

    YOU and YOU alone were putting your family at risk because of your ignorance.

    Sorry but you are a complete fool.

    Get a grip

  204. What you are trying to say here is that you contacted the hedgehog community and they told you it is OK to bring hedgehogs into the country without quarantining them?

    Is that right?

  205. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 7:44 pm |

    What i am saying is i already had them here and no one in the community warned me of the risks,but knew.
    That’s what i’m saying.

  206. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 7:52 pm |

    If there are any posts i don’t recall where anyone mentions that rabies quarantining is required or bal live 5 please post the link.

  207. I haven’t found it yet but I did find this one where you kind of lie about where you are actually quarantining your illegally imported hedgehogs. You also out do yourself in these posts and manage to mention not only your disabled children but your post stress disorder suffering partner, who was a soldier and whose family was murdered and your sick granny.

    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/174386-imported-african-pygmy-hedgehogs.html

  208. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 8:32 pm |

    i said anyone that wanted the paperwork regarding the hogs quarantining(and the only ones entitled to see them)would be those who went on to purchase 1 from their lines.
    As for the other stuff,yes?what of it?

  209. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 8:36 pm |

    is there anything wrong in explaining why i had to let down breeders so badly at the last moment?

  210. How did they know you had the hedgehogs. Did you tell them?

    This is of course apart from the fact that you are the one responsible for finding out whether hedgehogs can carry rabies.

    A simple Google search with “hedgehog rabies” just resulted in nearly 52,000 results. Surely you did that before YOU put your children at risk?

    I mean if they are capable of carrying rabies then any sensible, responsible, reasonable person would have assumed that they were subject to quarantine and perhaps have been a little more skeptical about what someone said over the phone.

    Again you’re making yourself out to be the poor misunderstood victim again.

    The reference to your children, granny etc refers to your tendency to bring them up whenever you want to try to get a little sympathy.

  211. Michelle most people would have just said they had personal problems. You seem to like spreading your personal history all over the Internet.

    Other unkind souls would probably call it attention seeking.

  212. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 8:56 pm |

    They were more than aware,to anserw your question.
    And even if i should have known does it make it ok for them to know about it and not say anything while i’m unwittingly posting in excitement that i have them?
    And actually with ballive 5 reg breeders rabies quarantining is not necessary.And when you’re talking to the very people responsible for the necessary info that control these things then you tend to trust the information they give.Just like you’re doing when they tell you that under NO circumstances is home quarantining permitted.
    I didn’t offer my explainations as a sympathy request those were the events taking place at the time.Make of them what you want.That’s as it stood at the time.

  213. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:03 pm |

    Anyway i’ve made my feelings clear on my being peed off at being the last to know about the rabies thing.Ignorant?perhaps.But if i did take those risks they were unknowingly,wish i could say the same for the few that never bothered to practice what they’re so fast to preach.
    Adios.

  214. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:11 pm |

    I’m afraid with most of the bitchy bitches(not the breeders personally,let’s say aquaintances) about personal problems just don’t cut it when you let a fellow breeder down,so i opened up my life and that of my partners because i was sick of being accused of having deliberately let them down for no good reason.So yes you’re right i should have been blunter and said you know what fk off harassing me and putting me down for letting so and so down i’ve got more important issues at hand.SO Shoot me !

  215. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:13 pm |

    you know shit happens in life,and everyone goes there.Why would it gain sympathy.These things DO happen.
    But in that regard you’re right i didn’t owe anyone an in depth explaination.

  216. But you are totally missing the point. You are responsible for putting your family at risk not them!! Stop trying to blame everybody else. At the end of the day whether they knew or not you are responsible for your own actions and ignorance not them.
    If I knew that rabies was associated with hedgehogs I would make some very serious inquiries before taking the word of some overworked civil servant if I thought my family’s lives might be at risk. A simple Google search would have shown you that. I can’t believe that you didn’t do your research first. After all you claim to be an experienced exotic pet owner. Surely you know about all the diseases associated with each one of your pets?

    Strangely enough as a simple hedgehog owner I knew that they could carry rabies and naturally assumed that if I tried to import one into the UK it would be subject to quarantine. I think I read it in a book I bought or perhaps on the Internet. Making the connection isn’t exactly rocket science is it?

    To be honest going by your forum posts you have lurched from one crisis with your animals to another. First your sugar gliders, then your hedgehogs and now your rats, and that’s in a period of six months.

    Not having a lot of luck are you?

  217. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:23 pm |

    Time to go back under the rock i think and STAY there this time.
    I have addressed the relevant and important issue which is what this blog is all about.Those concerned do not have to accept my apologies for the problem they have had with their hedgies and i appreciate that,but i HAVE apologised on numeous occassions.I CAN’T do any more than that other than send the refund ASAP.And while they may also choose to believe they will never recieve it that is also up to them.But if i didn’t care about what was going on then i wouldn’t be here.

  218. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:35 pm |

    Spike where PET hedgehogs are concerned NO i wouldn’t have thought if they were bred in a controlled enviroment that they would pose a rabies risk.
    It’s funny but even the facility that was suppose to take them said i would be allowed to handle them and visit daily.How ironic given the nature of their stay is that?

    Also remember i have kept animals since i was very young,16 in fact and exotics for 10 years and these are the first issues i have EVER had.
    Yes my glider was poorly,but he is fine and made a fast recovery.Yes it’s unfortunate that the hedgies happened to contract ringworm of which they are now clear and yes it’s unfortunate that the rats MAY have contracted a virus POSSIBLY while in foster care.But these things do happen albeit never usually so close together and i am dealing with it.It comes with the territory and it can’t always run smoothly,if i thought that then i shouldn’t have pets.
    thank you

  219. Here’s the link I mentioned earlier. You are calling yourself thehoghut in this post.

    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/98513-i-get-1-hamm-show.html

  220. How can anybody accept an apology from you when your never say it with any sincerity. all you will ever say is i’m sorry but.. its someone elses fault, your rude, someone in your family is ill, you were told bad things etc. not once have you had the guts just to stand there and say

    i’m sorry. i’m sorry about the whole situation. i’m sorry for getting my back up. i’m sorry for making things up or stretching the truth to try not to face up to it. and most of all i’m sorry for not being up front about paying up.

    you would be respected so much more if you could just be up front and say i handled this all wrong and flew off the handle and apologised properly and of course sent a cheque to ian and julie or at least let them know exactly when they would get one. i.e. benefit day is x day so i will forward it then or whatever

  221. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 9:51 pm |

    i can say i haven’t dealt with this as perhaps i should have from the start and apologise for that,because it’s true.I can say i got my back up and i apologise for that,because it’s true,i can apologise for being rude at times,because it’s true,i can apologise for the whole situation,because it’s truly a shitty situation to be in,that’s true.
    But i cannot apologise for making stuff up because what i said IS true allbeit personal and perhaps irrelevant to the whole situation.
    Ian and julie can expect their refund in approx 2-3 weeks and hope i that’s acceptable.I really need to sort my rats situation out first.

  222. MICHELLE | 20/04/2009 at 10:23 pm |

    So to ian & julie,Chaz,steph & Spike i DO sincerely apologise for my behaviour i can’t offer any excuses because there are none.I DO love my animals though and if anyone suggests i do not care for them or that they are not well looked after(perhaps better than we take care of ourselves)then yes i’m afraid it DOES hurt and i lash out.I’m very passionate about my animals although it may not always come across that way.Thank you for this blog also,i mean that also sincerely.
    thank you and goodbye

  223. Now you’re quoting the Balai Directive? Unfortunately it’s not that simple, to bring animals in under Balai YOU need to be Balai registered, the SELLER also needs to be Balai registered.

    Here’s a link – http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/imports/iins/livebalai/bal_live_5.htm, scroll down to ‘Other carnivores and other rabies susceptible animals’. It says

    “7. All carnivorous animals (excluding dogs, cats and ferrets) and primates must comply with the Rabies Import Order and spend 6 months in quarantine.”

    Good to see you have apologised and I really do hope Ian & Julie will get their refund. How about stretching the charity a little further and offer Chaz her money back seeing as it has made her quite ill.

    :o)

  224. Thank you for the apology, although in my case none is required as I did not buy any hedgehogs from you. I only hope it is a sincere one and that you now take the steps you have promised to rectify matters.

  225. Ian And Julie | 22/04/2009 at 7:29 pm |

    Thanks for the apology Michelle, it’s just a shame you have done so much harm to your own credabilaty as a serious breeder during the last few months.

    Thanks also to Tracy, Steph and a few others who have kept the torch going with us to get this far. And a big thanks to Spike without his doged determination and support i’m sure we would not have got this result, keep up the good work mate.

    All we can do now is wait.

    Ian, Julie and Leo.

  226. Ian And Julie | 30/04/2009 at 10:01 pm |

    STILL WAITING

  227. any signs yet ian?

  228. Ian And Julie | 06/05/2009 at 12:20 pm |

    STOP PRESS !!!!!!!!!

    HOLD THE FRONT PAGE !!!!!!!!

    GUESS WHAT ??????????

    STILL NOTHING YET.

    Well you didn’t actually expect me to say it had arrived did you.
    Get real this is Shell we are talking about.
    Anyway its only been seven and a half months so far.
    We have to give theese things time.

    Ian

  229. I take it no sign of any refund Ian and Julie?

    What I don’t understand is why Michelle does this to herself.

    What’s funny is that if you type “heavenlyhogs” in Google this blog comes up at the bottom of the first page 🙂

    It’s the same for “ringworm hedgehogs”

    But it’s at first place for “ringworm pet hedgehogs”

    Had she paid up sooner then her name would never have been associated to such an extent with hedgehogs and ringworm as it now has at a global level.

    The fact that we keep posting about it just makes Google sit up and take notice.

    The blog is right at the top for “dodgy breeders” even without hedgehog.

    At least that’s one good result to come out of this sordid little tale.

  230. Ian & Julie | 16/05/2009 at 8:40 pm |

    10 days since I last said it but you are right Spike,
    NO SIGN OF A REFUND.
    Those rats she has must be awefull poorly if she is still waiting for them to get better before she pays up.
    Perhaps its time to ring another vet to see what they recomend over the phone.

    Ian & Julie.
    PS Does anyone know what country she is residing in now. And I keep looking on the stock market for Mariuse’s new company but I cant find it yet.

  231. Ian & Julie | 16/05/2009 at 8:42 pm |

    Thanks again Spike for all your good work in making people aware of this problem and in particular this VERY DODGY BREEDER.

    Ian

  232. Well her web site says she has relocated and is now living just yards from the beach, but given Michelle’s poor grip on reality and her evident lack of honesty, that could mean anything. I was told a few weeks ago that she was still living in her old house in Essex, even though she was telling everybody here she had moved or was moving.

    No need to thank me Ian.

    What never ceases to amaze me is that all through this story she still tries to defend her actions. She has often said that the contents of my articles are wrong but as yet she hasn’t pointed out where they are wrong. There was one genuine mistake which I admitted to.

    As you say Ian, her rats must be pretty sick. As I said in an earlier comment she doesn’t seem to have much luck with her pets.

    Over the period this story covers (about a year), her ferret died (she was intending to breed them as well), one of her first hoglets got a “skin infection” (Pickle), her hedgehogs got infected with ringworm, one of her sugargliders got very sick and now her rats have a virus (apparently caused by another breeder). Personally I think this would call her animal husbandry into question.

    She’s got so many animals living in her dining-room, it’s not surprising that they’re getting sick one after another. What might not harm one species could be deadly to another.

    But not to worry eh Michelle, there’s always the PDSA (a charity) to fall back on. 😉

  233. Well I’ve done something I’ve been meaning to do for a few weeks – write to my M.P.

    I’ve written asking her to inquire into DEFRA’s role in this story so hopefully I’ll hear something in 2 or 3 weeks.

    Perhaps other concerned people could do the same thing with their own MPs, after all that’s what we pay them for. 😉

    I found this great site which makes contacting your local MP very easy. They will even pass your message on for you:

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

  234. Update:
    I got a very quick reply back from my MP’s Office asking my permission to pass my email on to the Minister of the department concerned (which I obviously gave) :).

    So perhaps something will be done… who knows.

  235. Just done a quick catch up on this as i have been offline for a while. Please let us know as soon as you get anything back from your mp/defras minister! I am not back online properly yet but will be in the next couple of weeks so i will also contact my local mp. The more people that shout about it the better the chance something will be done!

  236. I have seen various locations where this same story and discussion has been bounced back and forth with no one getting any where. I understand if Ian is upset he would want to force action by going public and getting outside support, a sick pet is never nice to deal with. What is also obvious to me is that is it is no longer about irresponsible breeding or a witch hunt; it has simply got too far.

    Michelle is open with her stories, but putting your sad story out there in such a way does not invoke sympathy because your life is your own and was not under scrutiny. What is un-acceptable here is your reaction and apparent behaviour, why can’t she see that?

    Michelle has buried her head in the sand and hoped it would go away, which is has not. From various reports I have seen she made some mistakes and is flaky with her excuses. Every one is angry and understandably so but maybe this can hurt more in the long run? Calling in MP’s and investigations can do a lot of harm, I doubt this will come to a conclusion after all this drama and the effort put in by those involved, and I think (for what that is worth) it is best to call a truce. But with the passion and hurt I doubt it will happen, some things just get out of control. My thoughts are will you all, as an outsider I can only imagine the stress caused by this whole situation.

  237. Hi mily, Me and spike are also ‘outsiders’. we have not been hurt by michelle we just feel that something needs to be done about people like her and if nothing comes of it then it is a shame but you can’t just ignore bad things going on just because you may not succeed after trying in helping the animals. if you saw someone hit their child but thought you might not be believe you it wouldn’t stop you reporting it!

  238. Hi Mily,
    Thank you for dropping in and taking the time to comment.

    I’m not quite sure why you think having an MP look into the DEFRA side of this story is somehow going to cause harm. Even Michelle herself has said that DEFRA needed looking at.

    If what Michelle is saying is true, DEFRA allowed her to quarantine her accidentally illegally imported hedgehogs in her dining room which was already being shared by numerous other exotic pets.

    By allegedly telling her initially that APHs did not need quarantining, they put her, her family and anybody else that came into contact with them at risk (however low it may be) of being infected with rabies. As it was they infected three people with ringworm.

    Just what do you think I should have done if not contact my MP after getting no joy out of DEFRA? Shrugged my shoulders and forgotten about it? I’m afraid I couldn’t do that.

    As you so rightly say things have gotten way out of hand here. Had Michelle stood by one of her many promises to pay Ian and Julie this whole story would have quietly faded away.

  239. I came to this site in hopes of finding information on owning Hogs as pets. Instead I found a story is beyond appalling. If the suffering parties have not received the promised money I’d give up. Just write this all off as a bad experience and move on. If HH has not paid now, then she will never, EVER pay. Just relieve yourself of ALL contact with said user and do your best alone. I am sure Leo and Pickles would love to see you all in happier moods. I know I sure would.

  240. Hi Steph,

    The problem is although we want to help and are appualed we did not see that “child get hit” and to get involved with authorities would not help without solid evidence. It can cause more harm than good, I’ve seen it happen before. In short its not our fight, even if I wanted to help it is Ian Julie and Chaz job to do if they so choose to, the authorities will only tell us its non of our beeswax : (

    Spike,

    Regardless of my above comment, I do hope that you get some feedback from DFRA your MP and others because regardless of her poor handling of this situation, if Michelle really WAS told there was no need to quarantine then there could be other sick imported pets out there spreading dangerous disease’s – worse than ringworm – and that needs to be bought to their attention.

  241. i have been watching this topic also from forum to forum and now here,i see very good points but on both sides.firstly hh and ian and julie came to the understanding that refunds were not required so in my opinion from the moment ian and julie made their decision they had no business to make their first post titled ringworm in aph because in my view the situation at the time it was agreed that no refund was required was the same as it would have been if hh and ian and julie agreed a refund and it was sorted out at the time so i do understand hh anger if these people did not email her with their change of heart first before posting i could understand it if they had and hh refused it.the post was very sarcastic and defamating.it looks to me they took a few breeders personal opinions and apparently false information as claimed by hh and added it to their post for maximum effect this to me without facts and evidence is malicious in itself.i also think that without facts and evidence of hh circumstances that its not fair to judge anything said to be a lie,circumstance is circumstance and they can change in a heartbeat,its part of life.im not a judgemental person it isnt in my nature but the above is as i see it and nothing more.im think that hh is very passionate about her animals or she would not have put up such defense and it seems to me that she can justify her reasons for breeding where i doubt most breeders can.she wanted to dilute lines and do much more for the species than breed because she can or to turn a fast penny.im pretty sure all this has cost her far more than anybody has lost.whos to say if she will or will not make the refund obviously she is having some difficulties at the moment and has prioritised her animals over the return of anyones money first and put her reputation at stake for the sake of it so good on her for that.i think its a little malicious to assume hh husbandry should be called into question.nowhere have i seen any of her hedgehogs or any other pets looking neglected or the housing for them less than sufficent. i have been to many ukaph reg breeders and beleive me hh husbandry far surpases these VERY WELL known breeders.i would have to agree that her handling of the situation wasnt as i would have dealt with it myself if it was me i would not have gone public and refused to deal with anything unless it was person to person via email.i also think that many were just waiting for such an oppurtunity to arrive.my judgement is reserved on whether hh will do what she has stated.out of curiosity have any of the owners emailed hh to see if there is a problem?i seriously hope that this does get sorted out.and i agree with spike it is important that defra,mps ect are questioned on how this was allowed to happen.im betting this lady has lost a hell of a lot more than money.and has the breeder of the german hedgehogs been contacted?
    good luck to ALL those it concerns.

  242. So still no money?

    Just FYI – HH has appeared again on Reptile Forums UK, I really don’t know how on earth she has the nerve to show her face again!

  243. she is back on HHC too….saying she’s still breeding but keeping the babies…but then posted a pic of a baby in its “new home”

  244. Wow. Just wow. You know, I came looking for general info on hedgies, and found this website extremely informative, and really appreciated the frank way many unspoken issues were approached. As time went on, I read more… and more… and more of the blogs/articles. This one appalled me.

    First of all, I want to offer my condolences to all involved, having lost time, money, and potentially harming their relationships with their adorable pets (I would imagine being force-fed would make them a little sketchy)!

    Furthermore, I want to condemn the mud-slinging that went on. While certain concerns were certainly necessary to voice, personal criticisms not pertaining to the situation should have been left behind. While this is mainly aimed at Marius/Michelle, others know what they have said… and probably shouldn’t have. In particular, I am disgusted by the misogynistic comments made by Marius/Michelle. “F***ing women,” “bitches,” and “What are you old women flapping about still?” Seriously, get a grip on your sexism. Please.

    They say that there’s no such thing as bad publicity…. But in this case, I think we have found an exception. Anyone looking at this, regardless of the “facts” or “fictions” produced in this horrendous circus, will certainly think twice about associating with or purchasing from an individual with such contempt for the people she sells to. No one wants to think they will be treated as Ian, Julie and Chaz were treated in the event something happens to their pets!

    And finally, I want to thank (profusely and over and over) Spike for maintaining his integrity, correcting mistakes brought to light, and pursuing the matter through the appropriate governmental channels! Bravo! I live in Canada, so I can’t really comment on the UK animal import policies. Otherwise, you can bet I would be writing a letter to my MP!

    Cheers all, I wish you all better days!

  245. Well I’m back 🙂 I’ve been working at a summer camp up in the Alps for the past couple of months where Internet access was pretty much non existent.

    To those of you who have written since “disappearance” Thanks very much for your comments. My MP wrote back while I was away. She wrote to my mother’s address in Swansea, as I am living in Italy. I’ll be posting up PDF’s of the letters shortly, once I get them converted etc.

    It has now been 9 months since Michelle aka Heavenlyhogs began saying that she would pay Ian, Julie and Chaz their vet’s fees. As of yet, to my knowledge no money has been forthcoming. (I’m sure Ian or Julie would have let us known had that happened).

    Up and at ’em then…..

  246. To be honest, this artical is just not good enough.
    You show the bad side of journalism. The side where you “know” what’s going on, and only contacting those you “know” are telling the truth, but not the one you “know” are lying.

    I don’t really care who did what. This is just plain slander, when you only look at it form one point of view.
    Too bad really, because it would have some really good points if you had just talked to both parties from the start.

  247. Kricket | 22/08/2009 at 7:56 am |

    I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I’d got some very crucial information that I’d like to make sure all involved are aware of (especially if Ian and Julie decide to take legal action.)

    This post proves that Miss Michelle was indeed aware of the quarantine laws. This post took place on the date of February 22, 2008. The news story was issued about the hoglets in July of 2008.
    http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/98513-i-get-1-hamm-show.html

    At the end of this thread someone even advises her that she’s better off buying a hoglet from the states if her reason is because “new lines are needed in the UK desperately.”

    Just thought someone ought to know.

  248. Hi Pia,
    Thanks for your comment. It’s not really intended to be journalism and I don’t pretend to be a journalist. Nor do I pretend to be an unbiased observer.

    Perhaps you haven’t read the article, but if you do you’ll see that the source was several hundred posts in various forums. Please read those and then let me know if you think it is still “slander”.

    Technically the article, if untrue, is libel not slander. The fact that no legal action has been taken against me by the parties concerned tells its own story, don’t you think?

  249. Thanks very much for that info Kricket. That post has already been mentioned here somewhere, but Heavenlyhogs claims she wrote to DEFRA who told her that the quarantine laws did not apply to her and her hedgehogs…..

    From what I understand she then went on to import the hedgehogs, give her story to her local newspaper, “was told by DEFRA that she could “home quarantine” hedgehogs and then stated on a forum that her hogs were being housed in a quarantine facility….. (which they weren’t). As I’ve said before Michelle’s grasp on the truth is somewhat tenuous so who knows where the truth lies.

  250. I just think that you are one of those people who like to tell others how stupid they are, and how high and mighty you are.
    It’s obvious from the answer you gave me…

  251. OK ……. 🙂

  252. I have to agree with pia.i am a new breeder based in essex and have purchased a hoglet from heavenlyhogs in recent months as have others.
    Let me start by saying i found heavenlyhogs a VERY honest person hence why i’m here even reading all this garbage about her.I would also like say her home on collecting my hoglet was IMMACULATE and not at all like ian and julie describe it??????all the enclosures for the hedgehogs and the cleanliness was also IMMACULATE and it was not difficult to see this ladies love for her animals while i was there and when we returned home with our new hoglet.Heavenlyhogs rang us EVERY week to make sure we were satisfied with our new addition and i beleive this situation has made her a little paranoid of it ever happening again.I think there is 1 question to anserw all here and that IS if this woman was EVER motivated by money/greed why would she even have contemplated the idea of having to fork out over £4,000 just to keep them instead of sending them all back to germany???????????especially since she was as far as i’m aware claiming benefits for 2 disabled children at the time.The way i heard it was that this lady did scrimp and scrape and sacraficed every day things WE ALL take for granted in order to start saving for quarantine costs which is perhaps why ian and julie looked down their noses at this lady just in case defras FINAL decision on the matter didn’t go her way,fortunately for her and the hedgehogs she was cleared by them from any intentional wrong doing.I myself have seen the letter fom enviromental health because she showed it to me of her own free will.I am not willing to disclose the contents other than say heavenlyhogs HAS told the TRUTH in this matter.And i have seen the proof.I must say after reading everything i am not at all suprised that this lady has witheld any sort of refund from some of the stuff said i can hardly blame her.What sort of people do not fight their own battles?and it’s true what marius has said people do become invincible behind a pc.I have also met marius and beleive me he is not the sort of guy i would even consider peeing off.so YES he DOES exist in a VERY big way 😀 and quite frankly an englishman/welsh up against a south african is laughable.
    I beleive that a conspiracy HAS been happening,caused by the people who ARE into breeding for profit.I have a VERY interesting emails from heavenlyhogs concerning many of these breeders who have their own UNSATISIED customers and we are not talking about anything remotely curable.
    That’s my tuppence worth.

  253. Thanks very much for your comment Lee.

    If you’re so convinced there is some kind of conspiracy going on why not publish your suspicions and the “very interesting e-mails” in your own blog and let the world know about it?

    I’m not going to get into a discussion about how big Marius is or isn’t, it seems a bit like kids saying “my Dad’s bigger than your Dad etc….” a bit childish don’t you think?

    I’m glad you’re a satisfied customer of Michelle. It’s only a shame she still hasn’t paid the money she has promised to Ian and Julie… You seem to have missed that small detail.

    I wish you success in breeding your hogs.

  254. I’m not going to get into a discussion about how big Marius is or isn’t, it seems a bit like kids saying “my Dad’s bigger than your Dad etc….” a bit childish don’t you think?

    yes i think it is! and the reason i mentioned it is because i have read all sorts of ridiculous remarks made in other forums.
    You also make a statement that both parties contacted heavenlyhogs in private to sort this matter out WHERE IS THE PROOF of such emails? i have read here heavenlyhogs requesting it.Truth of the matter is and the proof is in reptile forums uk under ringworm in APH post that ruining this womans reputation was always on the agenda REGARDLESS of whether she was going to pay or not.I will not compromise the position of other popular breeders by blogging PRIVATE conversations between people afterall these people are still part of the POPULAR breeding community and i am not the sort of person to compromise their position in that community.
    Thank you

  255. I find it quite disgusting that she has been called a tart and a whore by so called “decent” people on other forums, just because she has kept these people waiting for their money which tbh is their own fault ever heard the phrase “shut mouth swallows no flies”?.I have heard it from the horses mouth that the monies owed is going to charity soon but that they are being sent to an AMERICAN charity just to piss off the people in the uk aph forum who have claimed americans are up up their own arses.I have read this statement for myself,although now i have stated it here i wonder if that person will have the courage of their own convictions to leave the post as it is without altering or deleting .

  256. I think you’ll find that most of the “ridiculous remarks” have been made by Marius or Michelle, which involve thinly veiled threats of doing people physical harm or calling them cowards because they are “hiding” behind their computers etc… I find it funny that you joined in on that. Obviously in your world it’s an important bargaining factor.

    Where is your proof that such emails were not sent? I’m talking about the beginning of this story. Once Michelle took it to the forums it went downhill from there.

    Why are you so worried about the reputation of other breeders if they what they are saying is true. Surely they would stand behind their opinions? All you’ve come up with is innuendo.

    In all the forums I have read I’ve never seen anybody call Michelle a tart or a whore… Please provide links to these posts.

    Now the crux of the matter. Michelle said on this blog several months ago that she would pay IAN and JULIE (not some phantom American charity) after her rats recovered. Now you are telling me that she has said she is going to pay the money to an American charity just to piss the UK pygmy hedgehog community off….

    What has the UKPHC got to do with her customers? First don’t you see just how even more childish and spiteful that makes Michelle look? Plus she is going back on promises she made earlier. The money was supposed to go to Ian and Julie, who would then decide to what charity (if any) they would send the money. They could decide to use it to pay part of their rather large vet’s fee. All Michelle has to do is send them the money she has been promising them off and on for the past 8 months.

    Does that seem unreasonable to you?

  257. efcsmom | 12/09/2009 at 3:32 pm |

    Wow…I was googling “hedgehogs as pets” in hopes of purchasing one for my classroom. I found you guys instead!

    Thanks for a great morning read. It was better than any drama, suspence or romance novel.

    It has all the elements of fine literature: intrigue, lies, threats, injustice, the possibility of “hits”, romance (ahhh, Marius). The only thing missing is a good sex scene!

    Spike, I’d highly recommend publishing. You’ll make millions and then you can perhaps jet around the world with Michelle.

    To Michelle/Marius/Johnnyboy/Lee,
    I’m not sure how many personalities you have…if you are considering medical/psychological help, please do so in person – not by telephone. You never know what might be prescribed.

    To Spike and Steph,
    Thank you for entertaining me this morning. I hope to follow the blog, once in awhile. I think it is admirable for “regular” folks to be willing to take on “Big Business” and all the other Millionairs and Heiress out there. Us little guys need heros.

    To Ian and Julie,
    I hope Leo is doing well (Julie and Kendra too). Blessings to all of you.

    Peace and Blessings.

  258. Thanks efcsmom, it’s refreshing to hear from someone with a sense of humour 🙂

  259. Publishing emails from other breeders who are part of the ukaph society and forums will only create problems for those breeders.why bother?Spike i have read for myself in the ukaph forum where michelle was called a tart and whore amongst a few things it was ME and the other breeders who DO NOT agree with what has gone on that passed the information onto michelle.No doubt it probably got removed by now.It would not be the first time posts have been removed from that paticular forum to make it look better for those who run it.To be perfectly honest i can NEVER see anyone getting a penny after this,that’s what i honestly think and exactly what is anyone going to do about it that t5hey haven’t tried already?have you got anywhere in this long if not just to spoil the reputation of someone who couldn’t give a damn about breeding profit?oh you may well have discouraged people from buying from michelle but let’s face it the majority of people seeking to buy go on to breed 9/10 times.So in a roundabout way you have done michelle and the hedgehog popularity in general a massive favour here.
    emom your life sounds very dull maybe yourself and spike could create the sex scene you so desire.:)

  260. when i first came across the whole saga i didn’t think it was so unreasonable for any of those involved to ask for a refund and receive it until i realised that michelle in the begining never refused to pay anybody.Isn’t it true that ian miles didn’t want a refund and stated so?so then why DID he make his “angry”rfuk post if he refused a refund and there was nothing futher to discuss?principle or spite? Then i move onto the ukaph forums my my what a bunch.No i think it was all fuelled by those michelle had already trod on the toes of.simple as that.And good for her for standing up for herself against so many people who just don’t have the decency or courage to fight their own battles.Either privately,in person OR publicly.

  261. I have received an email from michelle and marius who are currently enjoying the sun,sand,sea and safaris of africa just to check on how my little hoggy is getting on.Oh that sure is an UNCARING breeder! They have no desire to visit the blog again and will not under any circumstances read the blog or discuss the senario with anyone again(face it i bet this is the last thing on their minds)but they have asked me to pass on their kind regards to all and to do myself the same favour and distance myself from all the poppycock and i would be glad to.Michelle also stated that IF she does pay anything it will be her business and at her discretion under the circumstances and in light of recent information she has received.Seems all the mud slinging and name calling has back fired on ian and julie and chaz,and you spike have not helped their cause.You are just repeating crap that has already taken place everywhere else.Perhaps a parot?
    regards
    leeah

  262. I think if i was called a whore or a tart i would tell all those concerned to F off to be honest. like hell would they get a penny.
    Hey leeah well put!

  263. Now that is strange…. I’m not a computer Techie type person but both Lisa and Lee’s posts originate from the same IP number…

    Could that mean they are the same person?

    😉

  264. Lee/Lisa I’ll remind you of what you …. oops sorry ….. Michelle said back in April on this blog:

    “Now i have made my apologies and agreed to pay vet fees as soon as possible,so i can leave here safe in the knowledge that although be it 3 mts later i have done the right thing,and as the old saying goes better a little late than never.So what more outside of that is it you want?”

    Frankly the idea that Marius and Michelle are anywhere except couped up in their council house in Middlesex is laughable to be honest.

    Of course if they are “currently enjoying the sun,sand,sea and safaris of africa” it begs the question why hasn’t she paid the measly £150 she has been promising since December 2008?

    And as for your depiction of her as a kind hearted person who wasn’t breeding for profit – why wasn’t she giving her hedgehogs away instead of asking for a £25 upfront reserve fee before she even had a breeding pair?

    While you are at it, ask her if she has sent chaz the vet insurance details, care sheet and other registration documents she promised over a year ago…

  265. Now the funny thing is Lee/Lisa/Michelle/Marius …… I’d more or less decided to let this story die a natural death. Interest in it had waned and it’s become pretty obvious that Michelle has absolutely no intention of paying the compensation she has been promising since December 2008.

    Then you came along Lee/Lisa/Michelle/Marius and I realised that while on the scale of things my site is only a small dot in the ocean of hedgehog sites, it’s still getting around 100 unique visitors a day. That’s 100 people, obviously interested in pet hedgehogs, who might like to know that, unfortunately, breeders like Michelle exist in the world.

    So Lee/Lisa/Michelle, you’ve just earned the front page of the blog for the foreseeable future… 😉

  266. lisa/leeah | 17/09/2009 at 1:31 pm |

    Me and leeah are friends AND? would you like the mobile number for marius and michelle?im happy to provide it with their permission and you will see its actually an african number you div,but i doubt you will meet a very good reception from marius lol.Good glad the blog is front page for forseeable future.everyone has had their monies worth as far as i can see.

  267. lisa/leeah | 17/09/2009 at 1:45 pm |

    p.s.michelles house ISNT council btw.

  268. lisa/leeah | 17/09/2009 at 3:07 pm |

    Or in middlesex lmao no fool like an old fool.
    If you wish for any proof of the above leave YOUR number here i will pass it on for them and if they wish to ring you to prove anything that will be up to them,i think they have been bothered enough .throughout this entire saga i have read many times michelle offerering proof of anything anyone has acused her of lying about.She asked for 1 thing herself,proof of emails proving she was SO unreasonable in the matter before ian and julie got snobby and snotty(in liverpoooooooool lol).well well well.isnt that odd! especially since SHE is supposedly the liar here.Also i would have thought giving away any animal would be in bad taste since it would attract allsorts but she had decided to donate ENTIRE deposits to american hedgehog societies.if im not mistaken that can also be proved.

  269. So I’m a “div” now 🙂 . I haven’t heard that expression in years, thanks for reminding me of its existence. As for your infantile little “telephone number” game I think I’ll give it a miss.

    What’s interesting is that looking through the comments made here, it seems you, Lisa/Lee, have been taking writing lessons from Michelle. Your styles, especially the the inappropriate use of capitals every so often, is very similar to Michelle’s.

    That aside I’ll simply post what Michelle said here on 20 April:

    “Ian and julie can expect their refund in approx 2-3 weeks and hope i that’s acceptable.I really need to sort my rats situation out first.”

    I’ll remind you that we are now in the middle of September so the 2-3 weeks have passed.

    And as for your complete and utter bollocks (British slang for BS for our American readers) about Michelle donating her “ENTIRE” deposits to American hedgehog societies – no way….

  270. now it can be proved she isnt a liar i thought you might decline lol goes to show doesnt it! thank you for your time and goodbye

  271. oh and YES way this can also be proved but never mind that aye this is not the kind of blog concerned with right/wrong/truth

  272. “now it can be proved she isnt a liar i thought you might decline lol goes to show doesnt it! thank you for your time and goodbye”

    Ummmm your idea of “proof” is that I divulge MY telephone number to the world so that perhaps Michelle can ring me? And that seems like a good idea to you?
    NOT very BRIGHT are you?….

    “oh and YES way this can also be proved but never mind that aye this is not the kind of blog concerned with right/wrong/truth”

    So what you’re saying is that the £75 she received as a deposit for her first sales and the £25 she received from her single sale since then, was sent to an American Hedgehog Charity?

    Strangely enough you seem to avoid dealing with the main point of this whole story. The fact that Michelle has not paid the compensation she promised to Ian and Julie or Chaz.

    Here’s an excerpt from HER VERY FIRST POST on the Hedgehog central forum In Nov 2008:
    I feel as a breeder it is my responsibility to get to the bottom of this and take care of owners veterinary fees should the illness have originated from here for what ever reason……”
    [my emphasis]

    I’d like to hear your comments about these promises Leeah.

  273. do i wish to be the middleman so to speak and keep on michelles case about this blog when she herself has washed her hands of it?NO Neither do i wish to help this blog along any longer than i have.Fact is if i were in that position i would have expected both parties to deal with this with me direct there is no need for other aspects of michelles life whether she brought them to the fore or not to be discussed much less critisised,i have read some of the sheer malicious nasty comments made in ukpygmy forum and it is disgusting if my buyer/customer refused a refund and then went on to deliberately sabatage my reputation(ie.first rfuk post) and then EXPECT a refund i just would not entertain the idea.ok so maybe michelle was good enough to put that aside but it continued didnt it?to all new lows such as branding her all kinds a whore being one of those.Now IF as michelle says and i am enclined to agree with her had refused to pay from the very first moment then YES the post first placed may have been justified the forums show us she never refused.I do not see how this and posts including name calling and constant belittlement in other forums have really helped the customers it has on the other hand hindered any resolve in my view.
    Your a BIG boy spike what do you care if your number is adevertised?i merely offered to prove a point and fair enough you declined.May i ask how you know what deposits were paid regarding her last sale?considering one of those was ME!!! im sure it would have taken some time to find her feet after such an awful expirience with defra i have also heard it that the lady michelle got these german hogs from had in fact had many reports made to the iha about her because michelles hogs were not the first exported with ringworm and to my knowledge some that went on to be exported died still the iha have none diddly squat about this and SHE remains on the recommended breeders list?ironic

  274. Irony: (noun) 1 – the expression of one’s meaning my using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect; 2 – a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result; 3 – a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character’s words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.

    Not ironic. Figure out the proper usage please. Ciao.

  275. Hi again Sian,
    I’m afraid that will have gone straight over leeh’s head 🙂

    Leeh, whatever was said on the forums, and on this blog earlier, the fact remains that after the waters had settled to to speak, and tempers had cooled, Michelle promised to pay. She still hasn’t.

    As I’ve said before, this story is about the shoddy way in which Michelle treated HER customers. It’s not about what other breeders have done in the past, or continue to do, or whether the German breeder concerned is still on a recommended breeders list etc…. It’s about Ian, Julie and Chaz and their hedgies and the way Michelle treated them, and still continues to treat them.

    If you feel so strongly about the way other people have bred or housed their hedgehogs start a blog about it. You don’t need any money, both WordPress and Blogger (Google) will provide you with web space. Start a facebook group, build a Squidoo Lens… all free 🙂 i.e. DO SOMETHING…

    If you’d like to point me towards the sources of your information about the German Breeder, or any of the other accusations Michelle has made about other breeders, I’d be more than happy to have a look at it. I made the same offer to Michelle months ago.

    It’s now nearly a year since this whole story began and despite many promises Michelle has still not compensated her customers.

  276. I started research APH’s 6 months ago with the intent to keep one as a pet. I found that I adore Algerian blacks and due to their rarity in the UK I had thought that in future I may be interested in breeding them or crossing their genes into some UK lines. I was aware I would need to import if I wanted an AB and looked at the information surrounding imports. I also contacted DEFRA who made it quite clear that APH’s are subject to quarantine proceedures.

    I have come across this blog with great disgust. It is a year since this whole fiasco started and it is till not resolved! There are a lot of inconsistencies in Michelle et al ‘s posts, for all I know they all may be true but I am not here to judge that. What has become evident is Michelle’s attitude and I have to say I will certainly NOT be buying an APH from her nor will I advise anyone else to do so either. It is my opinion that is Michelle has damaged her own reputation. This whole issue could have been put to bed months ago. If she had swallowed her pride on hearing the German breeder had ringworm i.e. the route of infection was established and made reparations straight away rather than the as yet unfulfilled promises this would all be over.

    One final point is that the separate accusation that has come out over a possible breach of protocol (and regulation) by DEFRA. I highly suggest that anyone making this accusation is 200% sure of their facts and have hard proof. Has anyone made a freedom of information request to DEFRA over this as any official advice would have been provided in writing if it was requested? The information is very clear on their website. Also in this country ignorance of the laws is not a defence in court. Whether Michelle was aware or not of the rules surrounding quarantine is by the by. IF these have been imported outside of the standard quarantine proceedure by Michelle she is at fault in a court of law. IF she can prove that DEFRA said she could home quarantine with hard proof, hear say or “they said over the phone” is not acceptable evidence this is likely to be the only way she can prove her case in a court of law should it go that far. Upon hearing she told DEFRA and they said it was ok as long as they stayed in her home for 6 months, I’m not convinced. I find EXTREMELY hard to believe DEFRA would have said this as a home with other pet animals is not a suitable place for quarantine and I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that Michelle is licensed to quarantine nor does she have a licensed quarantine premises anywhere. Strict regulation on quarantine proceedures are in place. From DEFRA “Any animal which has been landed illegally or is in breach of quarantine may be exported, quarantined or destroyed. There are similar provisions to deal with contact animals.” If they had reason to believe an animal which may or may not be infected with rabies (because this is what quarantine is about) has come into contact with another animal they could destroy the whole lot ON SUSPICION. This could be the whole of Michelle’s collection. If ringworm has been passed from the German imports to other APH’s this is an indication that however good Michelle’s day to day husbandry may or may not be it is NOT up to quarantine standards (few home keepers could ever meet this standard solely due to the facilities required. I can tell you from personal experience this is NOT a lovely furnished house with other animals about!).

    I am extremely worried and disapointed by this whole situation. Generally I think people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Britain is decending into a blame culture. What has happened to those good old values of decency, integrity and helping each other out from time to time!

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/quarantine/procedures/support-info/trans.htm for anyone who is interested in the guidance documents on quarantining.

  277. Thank you for your post Nix. I’m sorry for the late reply. You make some very valid points, especially about decency and integrity. It’s quite obvious from this story that Heavenlyhogs is neither decent nor honest.

    If you check out this post here: http://www.hedgehogsaspets.com/the-ringworm-saga-continues/ <-- (The link is there.. stupid theme makes it the same colour as the background!) you can see that I asked my local MP to look into this and she contacted the Animal Health Central Operations who categorically stated that home quarantine would not be allowed under any circumstances. Heavenlyhogs has said that she has a letter from Defra (which she won't make public) which states that she could indeed keep the hedgies at home. It's very difficult to understand where the truth lies. Michelle (Heavenlyhogs) has on many occasions demonstrated that she has a tenuous grasp upon what's true, false or fantasy and on the other hand Defra could be trying to cover up their original balls up. Like you I find it very hard to believe that Michelle did not know about hedgehogs being subject to quarantine and her lack of responsibility towards her family, her many other pets, and anybody who may have entered her house containing these un-quarantined hedgehogs is quite frankly astounding. However we are talking about somebody who has spent thousands of pounds on reptiles and other exotic pets but sees nothing morally wrong in using the PDSA as her "specialist" vet, so perhaps we shouldn't be overly surprised. It's been a year since this story began and neither Ian and Julie, nor Chaz have received the compensation that Michelle has promised them on numerous occasions, which is again another indication of this person's morals.

  278. It is all very disturbing indeed. I think I ought to nip in next door (the york DEFRA office is in the building next door) and drop off a freedom of information request. However that said, if you have contacted trading standards they will dig through it all anyway. I cannot believe that DEFRA would have made such a monumental balls up on this scale. The one thing they are very tight on is quarantine regs….

  279. Well Trading Standards have got back to me very quickly and have asked for more information (I only inquired about how I should go about reporting somebody), so I’ll be supplying that to them once I get back in this evening. It’s my birthday so I’m having a nosh up 🙂 .

    I don’t know how to go about using the Freedom of Information Act as it didn’t exist while I was living in the UK. The official response I’ve had from Defra etc.. is “cannot discuss individual cases….” I don’t know what could be done using the FIA if anything.

    Could anybody enlighten me on this?

  280. I’ve sent the information off to Trading Standards along with all the links etc. Hopefully they will fully investigate this story and get to the bottom of it.

    If Michelle is lying she deserves to be prosecuted.

    If Michelle is telling the truth then Defra have really “effed” up somewhere as they have repeatedly stated that home quarantine would not be allowed under any circumstances.

  281. I’ve had a few emails from American readers as to what PDSA means and why should I be so scandalized by Michelle’s use of the organisation as her “specialised exotic vet”.

    The PDSA (People’s Dispensary for Sick Animals) is a charity. It was set up to provide veterinary care for pets whose owners cannot afford to pay normal vet fees. To be eligible to register with a PDSA vet you must be in receipt of Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit, which in Britain would mean people in a low paying job or in some financial difficulty.

    My problem with Ms Fountain (Michelle) is that during the period this story takes place she spent hundreds if not thousands of pounds on buying quite a few exotic reptiles. She also went to the expense of traveling to Europe to pick up two hedgehogs which her boyfriend seems to think was a purely altruistic act as African Pygmy Hedgehogs are an “endangered species”, don’t you know? (Only in your world Marius)

    This of course raises several other questions.I’m Welsh but I live in Italy where the welfare state is a complete joke. I’m proud of the British model, I actually believe it is something we should be proud of. It acts as a safety net for people who find themselves in temporary or permanent (in some cases) financial difficulty. It’s not perfect, but you won’t starve. That said, what pisses me off and many other people is when people game or take advantage of the system. I do not scorn people that are in financial difficulty. Sometimes circumstances that are beyond one’s control play a role in how your life goes. I spent my childhood grubbing around on council estates in Swansea and believe me I know what “poor” means.

    However, if Michelle was eligible to register with the PDSA and get her pets treated, i.e. poor, how come she was able to buy so many reptiles off sellers on the exotic pet forums and hedgehogs and travel to Europe to pick them up?

    According to her friend Leeh, Michelle was on safari somewhere (I imagine Africa) a while back so it is legitimate to ask how can she afford that but not be able to pay for a private vet like anybody else that works for a living? Is she gaming the system? Hopefully she still isn’t receiving Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit or she might have some explaining to do….

  282. Oh Dear Oh Dear… Reading through my comments I’ve realised that I made a mistake in one by saying that Marius and Michelle were probably enjoying their safari in their back garden in Middlesex. Unfortunately being Welsh Middlesex or Essex is all the same to me.. and as Leeh quite rightly says I’m an old fool anyway.

    However in my report to Trading Standards I made sure it was Southend, Essex in the address, and not Middlesex 😉

  283. you said it ole boy and i shall quote you “a safety net for people who find themselves in temporary or permanent (in some cases) financial difficulty”.with emphasis on the “temporary” bit.You speak like michelle has taken ALL of her animals to the pdsa i beleive she said in an earlier post it was ONE rat on ONE occassion.How do you know who paid for her holiday?
    I’m pretty sure that if michelle was a benefit theif or had broken the law concerning defra she would have been called up about it long ago which i CAN assure you she has NOT! and if she was a benefit theif do you REALLY think she would publicise all her personal business on the net.Buty then you’re a fool,silly me i forgotLMFAO.

  284. tigerkitty | 28/11/2009 at 9:40 pm |

    I’ve just spent a few weeks slowly trawling through this article and all the comments made, and quite honestly some of the stuff Michelle/Marius/Lee/Skippy has come out with has been purely laughable.

    First of all Michelle, learn to spell “ANSWER” right. Making the same spelling error on each of your different accounts makes it blatantly obvious that you’re all the same person. Also learn to put a space between a full stop/commar and the next word.

    As for your excuses about your rats being poorly and therefore not being able to give Ian & Julie their money back yet, see this —

    Michelle 22/03/2009 at 7:12 am
    Cash will be in full now i have dealt with my own animals on that side of things and my rats issues are sorted.

    MICHELLE 15/04/2009 at 8:25 pm
    what are all you old women flapping about still?
    ian and julie were told they would have satisfaction,isnt that enough?and that will be when i have my rats are sorted,sorry cant say when that will be

    In the first comment, which was almost an month before the second, you say that your rats issues were solved, yet suddenly they weren’t anymore in April?

    You also said–
    “Instead the manner in which both parties dealt with it is in public forums and sites such as this.It IS a PRIVATE matter.”

    but you have been seen to say this on one of the forums —
    “What’s wrong with making this public?It’s a dodgy breeder that likes to keep these things hushed.I don’t regret that decision not for a moment.”

    Stop making up random “facts” and start acting your age. People have long ago wisened up to your bullcrap so quit the act.

    Many regards to those affected by this horrible situation – Ian & Julie, Chaz and of course to the lovely Spike and Steph.

    ~ TK.

  285. Thanks very much for your support tigerkitty.

    As you rightly point out, Michelle has promised to pay Ian and Julie on numerous occasions but has yet to actually keep her promises. This is something that Leeh, for example, seems to miss.

    And welcome back to Leeah . The fact that you are using [email protected]***********.com as your email address tells me everything I need to know about you 😉 You probably think it’s clever….

    I find it comical that you think that I’m an old fool, I’m not the one supporting somebody that has constantly proven herself to be dishonest and unscrupulous. I’d rather be foolish. I’d certainly rather be an old fool than a fkhead 🙂

    What you haven’t commented on Leeah, is the fact that Michelle has promised to compensate her clients on many occasions, but has so far failed to do so. Do you think that’s OK Leeah?

  286. Clemson1 | 30/11/2009 at 3:02 am |

    I live in the US and was interested in hedgehogs so I began researching the web and stumbled across this blog…SPIKE, well done. You did well in “pulling the story together” from other sites. If I lived in the UK I’d run fast and far away from Heavenlyhogs.
    Ian and Chaz I hope your babies are doing well now…please let us know!!
    Michelle/Marius/Lee/Leeah/Skippy…piece of work you are!! LEARN TO SPELL BEFORE YOU TRY TO PASS OFF ANOTHER ACCOUNT PLEASE!! The word flow and grammatical errors SHOW that each account is written by the same person…IDIOTS…

  287. A few typing mishaps and you have “solid” evidence.Blimey that about sums up this whole “saga” the only thing that has been presumed, that is likely to be true is the fact noone is ever going to see a penny ; ) now who’s the IDIOTS? 😀
    And yes spike under the circumstances i do think it is “FINE”.
    You all have a nice life now
    ta ta

  288. tigerkitty | 01/12/2009 at 3:23 am |

    The exact same “typing mishaps” from all various accounts who all can’t use full stops or commars properly or stop stressing words unnecessarily using capital letters. Oh and as we’ll no doubt see in a few days or so, they also no doubt say goodbye and then return over and over. I don’t really call spelling answer as “anserw” over and over and over in various messages, posts and comments over a period of over a year now a “typing mishap” either. It’s just plain illiteracy.

    I’ve no doubt no-one will ever see a penny simply because you/Michelle simply cannot afford it, what with being on benefits and all.

    I do believe we all will have a very nice life, since we’re the ones with the clear conscience and money to pay for what little mistakes we may make in life.

    ~TK.

  289. TY tiger/pussy? dont forget to have all ya hard evidence on what michelle is or isnt doing before you go acting the tiger best rather you stick to the latter it suits you better
    TK 😛

  290. I said it before and ill say it one last time and as an ending thought.Ian and julie turned down their refund.That was it there and then end of story,instead of asking in private for their refund after changing their minds they made a rather long drawn out below the belt post titled ringworm in hedgehog.Michelle

  291. still,after seeing this post agreed to pay but everyone has their limit and i think the constant bullshit here there and everywhere was hers.GOOD ON YA MICHELLE!!!!!! for telling a bunch of wnkrs where to get off. 😀

  292. holy crap how do you spell wnkrs again lol.
    Case dismissed imo.

  293. Alan Russ | 02/12/2009 at 2:37 am |

    Leeah (or whatever your name is), did you forget to take your meds today?

    I have to be honest lovey, you and your mate michelle sound like a right pair of twats. Obviously a good match.

    You should have coughed up long ago. You’re obviously not even bright enough to work that out.

    Thick as shit basically.

  294. Yes darling we are a right couple of twats…twats to the lleft wakrs to the right…on your way now ——–> ; )

  295. tigerkitty | 02/12/2009 at 4:06 am |

    Wow. I bet you’re really proud of yourself to have made the oh-so immature connection between the word “kitty” and the word “pussy”. Clap clap. Well done for proving how low you will stoop to try and get a cheap shot. I am by no means a “pussy”, either. Take a look at who is using various names to cover up who they really are cause they’re too scared to speak for themselves, and who is keeping to the one screen name.

    I don’t really know why you signed off as TK like I do.. it doesn’t really make any sense nor is it funny..

    Might I point out that it was you, Michelle, who began by making the whole thing public on HHC. Not to mention you lied and said “I have just this minute heard..” when it was actually a few days before. It is clear you don’t and never had any intention of refunding Ian & Julie or Chazybabe for the horrible ordeal you have put them both through, and I am so very glad that this blog is up to warn future hedgehog owners away from this ever happening to them by purchasing a hoglet from you.

    Oh, and in true Michelle form you are posting various messages in various seperate comments. I rest my case.

    ~ TK.

  296. ——————————————-> to the right and take your kangaroo court evidence with you TY

  297. And i dont see those involved doing their own dirty work either.Yes you’re right michelle made EVERYTHING

  298. public.Doesnt change the cloak and dagger fact of ian and julies post now does it?or all the crap said thereafter and those such as yourself jumping on the band wagon to get their own cheap shots in.You have no case to rest, you never had one in the first place.

  299. tigerkitty | 02/12/2009 at 8:48 pm |

    I’m sure ‘those involved’ have given up even bothering with pursuing this matter any futher simply because they know they will get no where with it. You’re far too stubborn into your ways to give in now. The only reason I am even bothering to reply to you is because I cannot stand liars, you being a very very big one.

    I don’t believe there is a ‘band wagon’ to jump on here nor do I believe I have lowered myself to throwing out cheap shots. You are the one insulting people here, Michelle.

    What I’d like to know is if you knew in July of 2008 that you had to keep your imported hedgehogs within your home for the ‘home quaratine’ thing, why you then bred hedgehogs out of your home when you knew there was a chance that they could carry diseased from your imported hogs? You imported in June of 2008, if I am right then it would be November before the home quaranting process would be finished. Yet you obviously bred before that time as by November this all had blown up after you sold hoglets to Ian & Julie and Chazybabe.

    You may not have known that the hoglets had ringworm, but you certainly knew there was a risk that the parent hedgehogs could have contracted diseases either because they were imported or because they may have caught it from one of the imported hogs (as I am not sure if the imported hogs were the parents or not) and that this could have been passed on to the babies as a result.

    That, in my opinion, shows that you knew to some extent that you were selling hoglets that may have held diseases.

    ~ TK.

  300. sorry but michelle isnt here to anserw for herself now is she?but you are right you do NOT know anything and go on hunch,suspicion,presumption and whatever else you think you can clinch to put michelle down.Most people quarantine new pets for as little as 3 months as we do when we introduce a new animal to our pets, for certain illness/diseases and in the case of rabies any symptoms would have presented themselves a long time before anything left michelles home,i think you will find that the hoglets you are refering to left in a reasonable time frame,i think you will also find michelle went on enviromental health and vet advise.I would love to give full details and i think michelle would do well to return and continue justifying herself to people that do not really matter anymore in the scheme of things as they stand now,but it wont happen and noone remotely close to michelle is ever likely to share this information with the likes of some.Im not going to argue about it either i beleive i have come and done and said what i set out to.Michelle is living a very happy life far away from it all and i know for a fact she has much better things to do with her time these days as do i,you will continue to all bang your heads together trying to come up with ideas and all sorts of other senarios and as far as im concerned(and michelle i dare say)you can ALL get on with it by yourselves. 🙂

  301. Alan Russ | 03/12/2009 at 3:49 am |

    Hey Leeah still here?
    I thought you were leaving about 10 posts back. Tell me something:
    When was the last time you saw the fathers of your children?
    More to the point, are you even sure who they are? Or were you too pissed at the time?
    Just a hunch 😉

  302. I’ve been away a couple of days so sorry that I haven’t replied. Alan while I understand the sentiment I’d ask you to refrain from stooping down to Leeah/Michelle/Marius’s level to swop insults (although I have been guilty of it myself – It’s an easy thing to do dealing with these people). I’ve got to go to work now but I’ll be back with a longer reply later 🙂

  303. Adam please do not confuse “YOUR chav” culture here in britain with mine.

  304. oh there goes the twat in me again sooo sorry.ALAN.
    when do you collect your next giro???
    just a hunch 😉

  305. tigerkitty | 03/12/2009 at 11:31 pm |

    Talking about three months quaranting being enough is pretty pointless. If three months was enough to determine whether an animal contained any diseases or illness’ then surely DEFRA wouldn’t make it the law that certain animals being imported into the country be put into quarantine for SIX months. The six months so called home quarantine would have come to an end at the beginning of November. The hoglets had already been in their homes for over two weeks by that time. This pretty much speaks for itself..

    I don’t think assuming that Adam is a chav when you tell others not to assume things about yourself/your ‘friend’ Michelle is very intelligent.

    I’d advise you to stop pretending that Leeah and Michelle are different people, as it is just making you appear even more immature and unintelligent than you are already presenting yourself to be. It’s not doing you any favours, honestly.

    ~ TK.

  306. tigerkitty | 03/12/2009 at 11:39 pm |

    Actually, no. My bad. The six months quarantine process would have ended at the beginning of December, not November. So there was still a good month to go before you/Michelle was supposed to allow the imported hedgehogs, any offspring from the hedgehogs or any hedgehogs that could have contracted any diseases from the imported lines, to leave your/her home. Yet three little hoglets did leave your/her home way before that time was up.

    The Echo article says —
    “Mrs Fountain now has to put the animals in quarantine for six months – but is not sure if she can find the £4,000 needed.”

    I do believe it says SIX not three. I’d also like to know why the hedgehogs weren’t therefore put into this quarantine process?

    Sorry for the double post.

    ~ TK.

  307. Wouldn’t you just? i suggest you email michelle and ask her yourself her email is here in the blog,maybe you could let us know how you get on 😀

  308. TK thanks very much for pointing out the six month quarantine rule to Leeah, it saved me some typing.

    Leeah[whoever] I know you have some reading comprehension difficulties but the quarantine story goes like this, so please try to keep up.

    Michelle’s stated reasoning behind importing the hedgehogs was that she wanted to introduce new bloodlines into the country. (Marius actually claimed they were an endangered species, kind of inferring that what she was doing was some kind of service to humankind). It seems strange that she didn’t wonder why other more established breeders had not already done so. Perhaps it was because they had actually done their homework first and realized what was involved.

    Once she had illegally imported the hedgehogs she discovered that they were subject to quarantine. She initially claimed that the hedgehogs had been placed in a quarantine facility and went on about how her disabled children had offered to pay for the quarantine with their benefits (bless ’em). She also goes on about her sleepless nights and her depression and worry etc etc. about how she was going to find the £4000 for the bill. This turned out to be another lie as she later admitted that Defra had told her she could “home quarantine” them and they had never been placed in a quarantine facility.

    Defra have told me and my MP that “home quarantine” would not be allowed under any circumstances. Perhaps you can understand why people are a bit dubious about Michelle’s version of events, given her somewhat tenuous grasp of the truth. At Defra’s suggestion I have written to Trading Standards reporting this case.

    The “parents” of the hoglets she sold to Ian, Julie and Chaz were not the “Germans”, i.e. the ones that brought ringworm into her home. During the “quarantine” period Michelle managed to spread the disease from her “Germans” to her “British” hedgehogs. This says a lot for her quarantine procedures and husbandry doesn’t it?

    What is typical of Michelle’s mindset is that she then tried to blame the hedgehog community for not warning her about the health risks she was running by not placing these animals in quarantine. She is trying to blame others for her own stupidity and ignorance (if that was actually what it was). She totally failed to take any responsibility for her actions and still continues to do so. Anybody that criticizes her actions are all part of the hedgehog community’s conspiracy against her. What Michelle doesn’t seem to realise that all she did was to go on to confirm their initial doubts about her ethics and breeding practices. She went on to do exactly what they were afraid of.

    She promised to pay Ian and Julie back in April and repeatedly before that, yet another series of lies.

    I’ve no idea what you set out to do by posting here Leeah but a strategic withdrawal (as usual) is probably your only option. You are trying to defend the indefensible.

  309. tigerkitty | 04/12/2009 at 11:22 pm |

    Why would I email you when I can just ask you right here? I suppose you’re keeping up the pretense that you are a friend of Michelle’s, though in past comments you sure seemed to know a lot about this situation; what has happened and why Michelle did the things she did; so I’ve no doubt whatsoever you could also respond to what has been said previously in the same manner, on ‘Michelle’s’ behalf.

    It is slightly comical to see you shouting your mouth off about a ton of things on ‘her’ behalf yet when it comes to something you can no longer dodge, you pull the “Ask Michelle” card.

    That’s quite alright, Spike. It’s good to know that Michelle wasn’t quite that silly to breed the German hedgehogs so soon and whilst they were still supposed to be in quarantine, not that that makes what actually happened any better.

    I’d take Spike’s advice Leeah/Michelle and withdraw, as you’re pretty much beating a dead horse here. No matter how many insults or immature replies you churn out, nothing will cause us to “see the light”, or change the facts of what happened.

    ~ TK.

  310. I took a while to read through this, and skipped a few posts, but what I haven’t found out to be answered is this:

    Is Leo finally cured? If so, how long did it take to cure him?

    That’s kind of the important thing in end, right?

  311. hey spike hows it going? wow i can’t believe that michelle is still posting on here in the december just gone. i wish she would stop changing her name though it gets rather confusing!

  312. LOL. I found this site searching for info about hedgehogs, which sad to say we aren’t allowed to have over here in Australia. Thanks for the fascinating read. I must say Spike that you’ve been remarkably kind really to this poor unwell person who calls herself variously Michelle/Marius/Lee/Leeah/Lisa etc. This is a clear personality disorder of some kind. Anyone with a healthy mind would be unlikely to be so unaware of how obvious her outrageous contradictory claims are, especially teetering between fabulous wealth and poverty stricken misery. It took her months just to pack up her computer tomove to a new mansion! I’m sad about the animals in her home though, as someone so unstable couldn’t possibly provide them with a healthy environment. Must be bordering on abuse I’d imagine. Anyway, thanks again for the fascinating insight into one disturbed mind.

  313. laughing and sighing | 17/02/2010 at 7:03 am |

    GMan, i was thinking the same thing. there’s signs of dissociative disorder cropping up in early posts, although the consistent typographical errors and styles might point to something delusional instead. it’s astounding how consistent linguistically several posters have been. sadly, that was what kept me reading. there’s a case study here if spike is willing to provide ip logs.

    the key thing here is, yes, how are the pets and owners doing? frankly i don’t care if the money ever gets out, the important thing is the health of the owners and pets.

  314. jackson | 13/04/2010 at 6:50 pm |

    Me and my husband are looking into a pet hedgehog and stumbled across this blog we were actually quite horrified by this story at first glance until we started reading between the lines and reading names and comments as above here and personal comments on the other forums that made us come to the realisation that this story is Informative as far as ringworm goes but that is about all we think this whole story has to offer.We don’t blame the breeder one little bit only maybe for the fact that she even bothered playing up to these childish embeciles by replying in the first place.It was very clear to us from the onset what the aim was.
    kay & adam

  315. As a after thought | 06/05/2010 at 3:25 am |

    Hmmm is it not true that one of the people slating heavenlyhogs AND the very person that runs the uk registry,was herself under scrutiny for shoddy breeding practices on more than one occassion?for selling a hedgehog that had no use of its back legs to a young girl?The young girl complained in a rather public slanging match in the breeders helping breeders yahoo group in 2007-2008? no doubt there will be some sort of record of these incidents.This young girl was told she could have a replacement hedgehog? but no vet fees would be met by the breeder and there was certainly no refund discussed.REPLACEMENT?WTF? Maybe that young lady should have been directed to somewhere more public,and perhaps to the so called do gooders just as i imagine some of those here were.We bought our dog some 3 years ago at 8 weeks old from a good reputable breeder,when we got home we noticed the pup had a sore developing under the skin which became quite pussy we didn’t ring the breeder and demand a refund LOL how ridiculous is that?even though we knew the pup must have had this when we collected him, we took on OUR responsibility and took him to the vet ourselves and paid for it without even a thought,mention or DEMAND for reinbursment although the breeder had offered and apologised.
    My god the nerve of some people!

  316. Unfortunately I’ve been very very busy over the last few months so I haven’t been as diligent in replying to comments as I should have. My apologies.

    I have no idea what you are talking about “After Thought”. Michelle has also made several references to what you are referring to, but despite many requests for more information she has always failed to deliver anything, concrete or otherwise about this “story”. To be honest anything Michelle says is taken with a pinch of salt anyway as she has amply demonstrated that she has a very peculiar idea of “honesty”.

    However even if what you say is even close to true, unless you have severe reading difficulties even you should be able to understand that over the months Michelle completely failed to deliver on repeated promises, in this blog and eleswhere, to refund her clients their vet’s fees. By the way, she was the first to offer to pay their vet’s fees they did not demand anything (you obviously “missed” that bit). In her ads selling her hedgehogs she also promised 6 months insurance against vet’s fees.

    I would also contend that a pup (not a pit-bull or staff cross by any chance??) with a sore is a somewhat different proposition from infecting 3 people with ringworm, running the risk of infecting your whole family and numerous pets with rabies and lying through your back teeth for over a year.

    This story is about Michelle’s unethical behaviour as a breeder, not some mythical event concerning another breeder. If you have any evidence about what you are talking about why not start a blog about it? Do something instead of trying to justify Michelle’s actions by trying to tarnish the name of somebody that has nothing to do with what happened here.

    What Michelle has done, in my opinion, is indefensible.

  317. Hmmm, looks like you can add “kay & adam” to the various other monikers: Michelle/Marius/Lee/Leeah/Lisa and so on. The crazy continues…

  318. Wolfgang | 23/06/2010 at 9:06 pm |

    Uhm… Hey, i’ve just read through all of this and i think it’s all a bit stupid.
    It’s OBVIOUS Michelle has split personality disorder! That’s why there are so many accounts that are so obviously her!!!!

    Anyhow, i’m not gonna take sides in this… Bugger that. I am. ‘Heavenly Hogs’ or whatever the hell it’s called is to blame. And that is that.

    Now, the main reasons for me commenting-
    1) Are both the hedgehogs, and the people that own the hedgehogs, okay?

    2) I wanted to say, Spike, what you have done is brilliant, this site is really informative and has helped me alot. I’m doing a project on Hedgehogs, Love Birds and Cockroaches for the course i’m doing, and i now know that you can feed hegehogs locusts.
    Thank you ^_^

  319. Heavenly Hedgehogs and her many ‘aliases’ are obviously suffering from extreme mental disorders – somebody who lies to the extreme that they WILL get caught out, are (I beleive) to be known as pathological liars – in the event that you are truly suffering from this illness then I apologise for the following post, until you are honest with yourself however and the people that you have already lied to, then I will state that you actually come across as a joke! You continuously post on this blog and other forums AS NUMEROUS ‘CHARACTERS’ and all at the grand old age of over 35 yers old!! But you do not expect anybody else to notice! My dear are you so stupid that you do not notice the punctaution mistakes and grammer is all so similar in all of your ‘aliases’? lol – you are obviously an attention seeker or somebody whom enjoys making up ‘characters’ for attention,and starts to beleive their own stories, however let it be known that you are no Enid Blyton, are you?.

    I am disgusted with the way you have treated the previously mentioned animals and owners of the hogs that were contaminated with ringworm ‘from your house’ – promising refunds and/or help to cover veterinary costs to help clear a problem thet anybody could see originated in your home and then going back on this – seriously if you do have mental health issues then I apologise for this comment however I do not understand why a ‘sane’ person would keep going back on this promise, it certainly seems as if you are attention seeking.

    I truly, truly hope that you are as you say a millionaire, at least then you can perhaps stop breeding the hogs for monetary value (for what reason are you doing it by the way? Is it the colour of your hogs, temprement, lineage, I am very intrigued as to why you find your hogs worthy of breeding, especially with regards to past problems?) however I am 100 percent sure that you are another dirty little chav bleeding the welfare system dry and using your – in your words ‘disabled’ kids – as a means to not getting a job – (I’m assuming that the hog breeding is a nice little earner there Michelle) and am assuiming that you dont advise your local council of these earnings so that it doesnt affect your housing/ council tax benefits, nor the tax office with regards to your Tax Credits and your older kids ‘DLA’ which as you seem to be his dependant I am sure you are pocketing, however these are just my assumptions – I will certainly be checking and reporting these issues with the relevant departments – I have details of all hogs that you have advertised etc under different aliases so will be passing these on etc ….. you could have maybe at this stage months later just been getting your credibilty back after your previous lies – but no you carried on with your lies and deception and you really make me worried for all of your animals – I prey they are ok xxx

  320. I have to say, while I agree entirely that Michelle should probably be refunding these vets bills and whatnot, I think we’ve all drifted away from the real focus here. I think we should try to remember that this isn’t about the money at all. It is about the poor condition these hedgehogs were sold in. Hardly anyone on here until recently has bothered asking how the poor little guys are (good on everyone who did ask of course). Surely they must have suffered more than anyone else throughout this whole ordeal. Hopefully now they are happy and healthy and enjoying their loving new (or not so new now) homes xx

  321. So my daughter says to me “Mom, I’d like to get a hedgehog” and I say to her “We have to do some research first”. So I get on the internet and google “hedgehogs as pets”. This was one of the first hits I got. Wow. I spent the evening being alternately entertained and horrified by the posts here. Thank you “Spike” for taking up a cause that you found worthy of your time. I was shocked at the flagrant use of the “F” word and other immature insults hurled by someone claiming to be a “responsible/caring” breeder. Not to mention the poorly handled situations with DEFRA, sick animals and unhappy customers. One thing becomes very clear. Anyone with two hedgehogs of the opposite sex can become a “breeder” and this reminds me of an old saying; “Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”.

    Michelle et al: Stop Breeding – anything!!! It is quite clear that you have neither the resources nor the understanding of what it takes to be a RESPONSIBLE breeder. I don’t question your love of animals, but RESPONSIBLE breeders carry either insurance against or set aside a large sum of $ to take care of the type of situations that you have found yourself facing. Even the most reputable breeders as you say will not have 100% satisfaction with every customer. But you as the breeder owe it to the animals that they leave your facility healthy and any issues to the contrary are dealt with promptly. PROMPTLY is not 3 months, 7 months or a year +. “As soon as possible” is not an acceptable time frame either. So sadly you have created some unhappy customers who have said unflattering things about you. Get over it, be RESPONSIBLE and deal honestly with your customers. But most importantly for the sake of future animals — STOP BREEDING!!!

    Ian, Julie and Chaz: I sincerely hope that Leo and Pickles have fully recovered along with you and your family members who were infected. I also hope the long-promised reimbursements finally make it to you. And Chaz I hope you are doing well.

    As for me, I will be carefully researching RESPONSIBLE breeders in my area and if I choose to aquire a “hedgie”, it will be with my eyes wide open thanks to all of you!!

    Sincerely,
    Tammie

  322. Holy hedgehogs! What a tangled web this woman has ensnared herself in.

    I’m assuming many people considering becoming first-time hedgehog owners will Google “hedgehogs as pets”, and find this blog, just as I did. I don’t know how Michelle/Marius/Lisa/Leeah/etc hopes to make a success of breeding after this mess.

    As others have stated, if she would have done the right thing and paid up as soon as the problem was brought to her attention, she might have been able to live this down.

    I live in the states, and reading this has certainly made me determined to thoroughly research ANY breeder I consider buying from (though hopefully Miss Michelle is one-of-a-kind). What a cautionary tale. Thanks Spike!

  323. Wow. Just… Wow.

    I came looking for info on hedgehog care after thinking long and hard about getting one. I’m appalled and disgusted by the behaviour of Michelle/MICHELLE/Shell/Marius/Lisa/Leeah/lee/Pia/Johhnyboy/kay and adam.

    Wow. Lots of names.

    Anyway. It was not the initial (apparent) mistake; that can happen to anyone. It was the way it has been dealt with afterwards. I presume, and correct me if I’m wrong, that Ian, Julie and Chaz never received any of the compensation offered.

    This entire thing has been an amazing read. Seriously. The level headed-ness, intelligence and wit- (“Your Cinderella quip was very apt, it’s a fairy tale and you are very good at telling them”)- of Spike is inspiring, especially in the face of such mind numbing stupidity.

    You sir, are an internet icon. Your spelling and lucidity are among the best. I congratulate you on that front. It’s difficult to make a point against someone who said “bye” in some form 42 times.

    However, it still makes me sad to see the state the affair has been left in. I hope both the hedgehogs sold are now healthy, and that the people wronged are doing okay.

    Yours, Paula.

  324. Ahem. Like the other recent posts I was looking into getting a pet hedgehog and stumbled upon this article.

    Michelle is obviously retarded, crazy, and… retarded. The pieces I have put together are… Her two imaginary sons are autistic. Genetics. She has to borrow money from her two autistic sons and yet has a million dollars. Crazy. A man with a lot of money married her recently even though she has “infected eczema” on her fingers. Impossible. She loses sleep over her small rodent possibly having ringworm and doesn’t think “Hey maybe I should be more worried about that horrific nasty shit I have on my hand.”. RETARDED. She had to wait for someone on a forum to give her a link to a ringworm site to even know what it was. RetardedRetarded. Google it bitch.

    Plus. She can’t spell. Or use proper punctuation. And the rats story made me lol. Okay. What was she trying to prove “I AM A CARING BREEDER”. Dude. All of your rats died. All of them. You are obviously a terrible breeder. That story proved just how hazardous you are to animals. You killed them all. And then you pretended to have friends defending you except your grammar is so horrible it was easy to tell it was you trying to be less retarded. I am sorry you are retarded. I have now decided I will likely invest in a sugar baby instead. :]

  325. @PaulaD
    Thank you very much for your very kind comments.

    I haven’t heard from Ian, Julie or Chaz recently, but the last I heard they were still waiting. Michele in her many guises has been quiet for a while. From what I gather she is “on a safari in Africa/living in a big house near the sea/running an animal sanctuary/enjoying her untold millions” take your pick 🙂 . Of course it’s more likely that she is still living on social security benefits in a council house somewhere.

    @Jee
    Thanks for your comment. As you say Michelle is a terrible breeder and hopefully anybody that Googles her name will come across this article and be able to make an informed choice about whether to buy any kind of pet from her.

    Please note that the vast majority of breeders are honest and ethical. People like Michelle are not common. Please do not be put off buying a pet hedgehog by this story, just be careful about who you buy your hedgie from. By the way Sugar Gliders are a much more demanding and delicate pet, please do your research carefully. They are extremely cute, but are not for everybody.

  326. I’d also like to thank everybody who have commented on this story. I don’t reply to many of them as in most cases they speak for themselves but I do read them 🙂

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to wish everybody and their families a very happy Christmas.

  327. Thank you, Spike.

    I happened across this blog while also researching into hedgehogs as pets in order to consider whether or not it may be the best fit for me as well as what it takes to properly own and care for one.

    This article has been very surprising to me and has led me to be that much more skeptical in looking into breeders to potentially purchase from.

    I’ve read this entire blog from beginning to end, and I will state here that in my opinion health issues in pets may occur for any reason, even unintentional ones; but it’s how it’s handled in the end that matters. It is the lack of customer service that more than borders upon being abusive that ultimately turns me away from HeavenlyHogs.

    I do not mean that in a disrespectful note, but purely from a consumer standpoint and that of an animal lover as well. No amount of reasoning or unreasoning can take away the eyes and feelings of customers in a business.

    I hope things get resolved for the damaged parties, if not I think the current business reputation is beyond repair regardless and that may be enough to settle for knowing that others are thoroughly aware.

    It benefits other potential future pet owners to be extra careful about who they purchase from, and to do their research. I think if that can be placed into the hearts of people, then this article has been made invaluable with all faces and names set aside, but embracing only the concept.

    Names, locations, and websites can be changed. But if people can be taught to be more cautious from this example, then no matter what guise a business takes on, as long as it continues to fail in one aspect or another be it customer service alone or morals, then it you have blessed many a person through writing alone.

  328. Babybiker | 14/01/2011 at 12:47 pm |

    Thanks for a great story!

    Me and my boyfriend spent the whole evening reading the story about Ian & Julie and Chaz. We couldn’t believe the energy of lies Michelle and all her ‘boyfriends’ (who all are typing with no space after full stop) have spent with this case and still no conclusion.

    I will be very careful when I buy an African pygmy hedgehog! And in the future, look out for any of the names related to Michelle and her ‘boyfriends’… as she lives quite close to me, and it would have been likely I had contacted her if I hadn’t known!

  329. I’m glad you enjoyed the read. My main aim when I started writing about that story was to try to warn prospective hedgie buyers of some of the dodgy dealers out there. I certainly didn’t expect it to turn into the saga it did 🙂

    Good luck with your hedgie!

  330. Lover of the adorable | 03/02/2011 at 7:24 am |

    Goodness! I just finished reading through most of the posts! I assume by now Ian and Julie have just given up getting their refund, if they haven’t gotten it already? That’s really sad. Thank you for bringing the issue to everyone’s attention, so that if people do decide to buy they are even more educated!

  331. Rebekah | 15/03/2011 at 4:04 am |

    WOW. My thought, as I’m sitting here in my living room in Florida, after reading this story I just stumbled upon, is that Heavenly Hogs should be re named Hideous Hogs! WOW! Heavenly Hogs, if I was your customer, I would have smashed all the windows in your house, slit your tires, and lit a bag of dog crap and left it on your front porch. But it wouldn’t matter, because when you are ignorant, nothing helps except an education. So go get one. All of the posts on here from “Heavenly Hogs” sounds moronic and uneducated. How the hell do you run ANY kind of business? It’s obvious that you have no degree. You come across as not even passing high school! Basic business ethic tells you that if you send out a defective (or unhealthy in your case) product, you are responsible for repairing or replacing (or in your case, PAYING THE VET BILL) IMMEDIATELY. Does common sense not tell you that if you are not using ethical business procedures that your customers get PISSED OFF, meaning you get a BAD REPUTATION, and you eventually GO OUT OF BUSINESS. There is no law preventing gossip, and obviously your consumers heard by word of mouth (or internet like myself) that you are selling a defective product. That’s what happens. So you sold a sick animal. You’re sorry. Who cares???? PAY THE DAMN BILL RETARDS. In fact, you should be SO ashamed, that you should write a check for EXTRA to compensate for this man’s stress and inconvenience. If you can’t handle that, then grow up, stop SELLING ANYTHING TO ANYBODY and go get a degree in business management.

  332. Rebekah | 15/03/2011 at 4:36 am |

    As a after thought?????? What in the hell are you talking about? If you turned down reimbursement for you dogs vet bills, well, then, you are just stupid. When a breeder sells an animal, there is normally a bill of health somewhere in the deal stating that the animal is in good health. It is your job to have the animal inspected by a veterinarian, and if the animal is not a fit and healthy animal, it is the BREEDER’S RESPONSIBILITY to either 1) pay the vet bill 2) offer a replacement (although that should be the worst case scenario). If you sold a sick animal, it is YOUR problem, not the new owners. If the animal became sick after an amount of time that you sold it, it would be the new owners problem. The fact that you say you didn’t ring the breeder and ask for a refund..and “how rediculous is that?” ….well you must just be stupid. I’m assuming you are this Michelle person, because the most retarded posts on here came from her. And leeah and Marius and Kay and Adam and whoever else you claim to be. You are not fooling anyone, I hope you know, and why you even try to….the entire world knows how retarded you are, because with all these moronic posts you keep posting you look dumber and dumber. Your “kids” are retarded OBVIOUSLY because you passed on the retarded gene lol!!! If you didn’t receive any compensation from the “breeder” you purchased the puppy from, that just proves that you are even MORE stupid than you have already proved to be. Just crawl under a rock and die. But send out the checks first for re imbursing the unsuspecting customers you ripped off so that you don’t rot in hell.

  333. Wow, ,after reading all this im soo glad that Heavenly Hogs is not here in America. Like really, she runs around screaming how rich her “partner’ is and even needs him to come up here to defend her. It seems like all she wants to do is create more attention for herself you can clearly see this as she posts 3 comments all about 10 to 15 mins apart without anyone responding. As for the owners that take in these hedge hogs id advise you to get them checked out immediately. I find it sad that ANYONE that says raising hedgehogs is there passion could ever treat such a hedgehog in this manner. There is even proof that she sent Chazbaby pictures of the infection but yet never went to the vets to get it checked out? And if she is sooooo rich why is it that she couldn’t just hand over the money? Any pet lover or breeder would do it, i mean if your a good one. No breeder would just shoo an issue like this away. It just leads me to wonder, hedgehogs are not as difficult to take care of as 2 autistic children. I do not belive this woman and her partner should have any rights to breed or sell hedge hogs they cleary have noo idea how to take care of. And as for your “fact” that ringworm is everywhere.. is like saying that staff infection is everywhere or worms. The fact is for ringworm to get as bad as it did in the pictures u sent to chaz, the hedge hog had to have had it since birth. It got worse due to your filthy living conditions and stacking these hedgehogs on top of one another. And for your “partner” my family has been remodeling for a few months now and never has our place looked as bad as what has been explained here. If your such an animal/hedgehog lover please do them a HUGE favor and leave them to the wild or to people who will actually care for them.

  334. Foxinthecknkp | 19/08/2011 at 9:31 am |

    I really can’t believe I just spent the better part of 3 hours reading through all this. I found this article because I WAS considering a Pygmy Hedgie as a pet but frankly after reading all this, I think I’ll go rescue a mutt from the shelter than risk dealing with a potentially “dodgy breeder”. Seems like I might have better luck. Personally I find what Michelle (and pseudonyms) have done to Ian, Julie, and Chaz to be morally reprehensible. I don’t live in the EU or the UK but frankly after reading this story I seriously wanted to make a trip to pay a visit to Michelle with a whole truckload of ammunition and a good rifle. Sorry…the Texan in me got out a little.

    To Ian, Julie, and Chazybaby; I sincerely wish you all the best of luck with your pets and hope this post finds you all in good health and happiness.

    To Spike, Steph, and a few others I don’t want to scrollback to name; I thank you all for the informative discourse on this particular “dodgy breeder” and I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts. After Michelle’s rather painful spelling, grammer, and frank illiteracy, your postings were a balm to this old soul that at least learned American if not the Queen’s proper English. 😉

    To Michelle (and her associated companions/voices/personalities/sheer-crazy); Lady (and I use that word so loosely there’s a whorehouse here in Texas taking offense to it) you are quite possibly the most pitiful soul I’ve read about. So pitiful in fact that like a snake-bit dog or a too old to hunt faithful hound; you should just be taken out back behind the barn, away from where the kids might see, and given a merciful shot to the noggin. Real shame you’ve already bred and likely will continue to do so.

  335. Random Anonymous | 05/09/2011 at 7:29 pm |

    Hahaha, holy crap.

    Good read.

  336. Wowsa! Like some of the other posters here, I got drawn to the site by searching “hedgehogs as pets”. I have a friend in the UK who does volunteer work for Harper Asprey Wildlife Rescue and they recently got a baby hedgehog in to rehabilitate. After my boyfriend and I squealed over the adorable picture of the curled up baby hoggie in my friend’s hand, we Googled our way to this site.

    Astonished doesn’t even begin to describe how we feel.

    After reading about Michelle (and her multiple personalities), I’m firmly convinced she is an animal hoarder. I don’t doubt for one minute she loves animals and probably feels she is caring for them as lovingly as possible. However, there is no way one human being can care for so many creatures effectively AND still have time to care for 2 disabled children and an elderly parent. My boyfriend’s brother is severely autistic, and I’ve experienced firsthand how much time and effort goes into his care. There is no way on God’s green earth I could care for him 24/7 and take care of hedgehogs, rats, sugar gliders and every other creature Michelle is claiming to own.

    At some point, something has to suffer. Either your children, or your animals. And frankly, neither deserve that. Do yourself (and everyone) a favor and get out of the animal husbandry business before more innocent creatures suffer under your “care”.

  337. I’m considering buying a hedgehog in a few years. I came to your blog to see what kind of information I could get on hedgies and see if they are right for me. I’m very glad you posted something like this, I never knew that could happen! Can you give me a website that lists trusted Hedgehog Breeders? I would hate to have to deal with a dodgy breeder such as Heavenlyhogs. Thanks so much!

  338. This has quite a fascinating read! I actually ended up on this site while googling “do ducks commit suicide”. What a long, strange trip it’s been…

  339. Einstein | 18/01/2012 at 2:41 am |

    Any news on Leo and Pickles? 🙁 Poor poor babies.

    I read this all while my little hedgie, Einstein, was sleeping peacefully in my lap. Needless to say, I was absolutely horrified by the lack of restraint from Michelle/Marius. Instead of taking the high approach, you two chose to hurl uneducated slander from multiple accounts. I’m so so grateful I live in the States. Any hedgehog breeder must be registered, and must provide their registered number to the buyer. Shame on the guilty party. If you can’t afford to care for your animals, you should NOT breed them.

    I work with an animal rescue in Michigan, and every day we get reports of some whacked out nut jobs trying to breed animals with absolutely no care. I’ve adopted two bassets myself who were both very sick from the lack of care from their owners/breeders. I paid everything out of pocket, resulting in over $14,000 in the past two years.

    I honestly, truly, dearly hope that Leo and Pickles are healthy and happy. I would love to see an update!

  340. Petcrazy | 17/03/2012 at 6:07 pm |

    I’ve been following this story since day 1 and still check on it annually to see if any of the victims have recieved payment. This has been dead for a while, but I’ve just made an important realization.

    This story intrigued me because after I stumbled onto this site and story in 2009 I knew I had seen Heavenlyhogs somewhere and felt uneasy, but couldn’t place it. Today I have remembered why. HH shared pictures of her rats on a forum (posts are still up!) and they are extremely small for 1 rat, let alone 2 in one cage and 4(!) in the other. She is very obviously aware of this, as the pictures are taken as close ups so it appears that it could be bigger than it is. However, having the same cage (which I have as a travel cage for a hamster due it’s tiny size and harmful wire bottoms). You can see by looking that there is no ladder to indicate any further levels, but again you have to really think about what you’re looking for as she has obviously attempted to hide its size. Has this ever been brought up before??

    We all know HH is the culprit, but besides the ringworm pics there has been no photographic evidence to say, “hey, you improperly cared for at least some of your pets”. Does it change anything? No. But it really goes against her credibility for all the skeptics and reaffirms our thoughts. Most of us have believed Julie and Ian’s reports of the house and animal housing, but to a few it could have been taken as bitter clients tarnishing a breeder’s good name (or in this case, each name of her fictitous personalities). It really makes you think… But hey, she’s a “millionaire” so she can buy cages the size of Timbuktu…

    I hope this comment finds Ian, Julie, Chaz, Spike, Ian and Pickle happy and in good health.

  341. Like you Petcrazy I’ve subscribed to this thread and come back every so often to see if there have been any developments.

    I live in the UK and to be honest the whole story is basically a reflection of the way some people in the UK live today. They see no moral dilemma in claiming benefits (welfare for our American friends) from the government, and ultimately the Tax-payer, and owning, and spending a great deal of money on exotic pets and turning their subsidized tax payer funded government supplied housing into some kind of private zoo, full of exotic pets.

    Michele, for example, saw no problem in owning an expensive reptile, dog or hedgehog and taking it to the PDSA (the People’s Dispensary for Sick Animals) to get get treated because she wouldn’t be able to afford normal vet fees. The PDSA is a charity, which was set up to provide health are for poor people’s domestic pets, basically cats and dogs, not $500 exotic reptiles or insects. A more responsible person wouldn’t have bought an animal they couldn’t afford to care for. Unfortunately society in the UK has become one of perceived ‘entitlement’ rather than one of ‘earned rights’.

    People like Michele milk the system for every last penny they can get out of it and I’d be very surprised if she’s ever done an honest day’s work in her life.

  342. Hi Petcrazy Spike is just fine but overworked unfortunately. I haven’t really been looking after my site these past months. 🙁 Thanks for the thought 🙂

  343. Got to say Jimmy I agree with you. The UK has turned into a spongers paradise, where it seems that being idle and lazy is rewarded while somebody who works for a living is considered as being “stupid”.

  344. Just stumbled upon this website while looking for cute hedgehog pictures and posts…..and spent a good 2 hours reading/skimming through this as my bedtime story LOL
    really really interesting story and case here….
    kudos to you, Spike for getting this to be basically #1 on Google for a lot of hedgehog-related searches, and spending so much of your time to try to deal with the madness.
    I’m appalled at the way some of the people reacted and posted things, and honestly it wasn’t even just Michele/Shell/Marius/etcetc.
    Hope the majority of the people got over this incident and that karma is out there!!

  345. This whole thing, including the comments was interesting… Just skimmed some of the comments, Jimmy’s one caught my eye. The UK simply isn’t what it used to be, but this isn’t an excuse for people’s ridiculous behaviour. Instead of escalating a situation, admitting you were wrong would’ve avoided this whole “it’s your fault, not mine”.

    My other wants an African pygmy as he had one back in South Africa, I think we’ll spend a lot of time researching breeders before deciding, so thank you for the story.

  346. p.s – http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/105916518/african-pygmy-hedgehogs.html This seller lives in Essex, is this her? This is relatively near me so I’m just being careful.

  347. I had some information relating to this blog, i found the links through reptile forums uk. But you know what? since reading some of the stuff i have had a change of heart. How can anybody talk about that womans two kids like that!? The more i read the more i realise by sharing the information i have i am passing it onto a bunch of fucktards who hopefully will be struck down with something much nastier than ringworm!
    HEAVENLYHOGS i hope to god you haven’t paid these bastards a penny!

  348. Nick R. | 14/08/2012 at 9:27 am |

    Well, I read a few posts and I have to say, HeavenlyHogs needs to work on her grammar. I am also quite relieved this woman does not operate in California. She seems like a regular “Attention Phyco”. Basically it is a person who is deeply insecure with themselves, loves to orchestrate elaborate lies, claims expertise in fields they do not understand, and in my experience, they like to create new accounts and create messages so it seems people are taking her side. This is ridiculously common with 15 year old California chicks. I do.not completely understand what is going on, but i diliked Michelle right from the start. Just pay the money already, we all know that you are responsible for paying, you say your tired of it, so just pay them and end it (Unless you enjoy all this attention your little “scandal” is getting you).
    P.S. Great work on the site Paul/Spike, I am learning a lot, I have always wamted to visit Verona and Rome!

  349. Nick R. | 14/08/2012 at 9:33 am |

    I apologize for any mistakes i may have made in grammar, but i am 15 and using an Android keyboard…they suck.

  350. Nick R. | 14/08/2012 at 9:37 am |

    I am not trying to offend either party, nor show bias, i am just speaking my mind, and i am sure there is no law against that, i am simply “calling them as i see them.”

  351. Cammerz | 05/12/2012 at 2:18 pm |

    I’ve been up since 3am reading this thread and I am saddened and appalled. I stumbled on this quite by accident because I had some post a beautiful picture of a tiny hedgehog and was curious to find out if it could live in tropical climes. Imagine my dismay to see this here…:( I wanted to buy one for my daughter and here in Trinidad and Tobago we don’t have animals quarantined from the UK so I felt that it would be a lovely addition to our household, that my daughter would love. I sat in horror as I read the thread and I can only feel sorry for Leo and Pickles and the rest of the hogs involved.

    I will not be purchasing any as I cannot guarantee that michelle under any of her pseudonyms will not creep her way into my ten yr olds life and she has severe allergies so I was very happy to find something g I could work with but now I’m reluctant to take such a chance.

    I hope that she is brought to swift justice.

    News of her injustices have reach as far as my fair island.

    I think I will buy my kid a hamster instead.

  352. Searching the interwebs for info about having a hedgehog as a pet, and I come across this little “gem”. I think my brain’s gone numb trying to keep up with all the different bs storylines being thrown about by an unscrupulous breeder/psychopath — and that was just the entertaining part. You could imagine my literal sigh of relief when it was finally publicly posted that several persons were one in the same – thought it was myself that had gone crazy. The awful realization one comes back to after the chortling ceases is that there were abused (read – mistreated/mismanaged/neglected) animals and unsuspecting human sufferers as well. This turns my stomach and makes me not only want to avoid a hedgehoggy pet, but being wary of all breeders period. I would MUCH rather believe that I could trust someone who supplies me with a future friend/family member, but this saga remains alive to remind us what can happen when things go wrong. My condolences to the affected pet owners, and I THANK YOU for putting yourself through this mess so that future eTravellers such as myself can heed the warning (and chuckle at a few parts – sorry, but really…that woman) **typed by iPhone; please forgive any mistypes. 😉

  353. Where to begin would be the most intelligent question at this point…

    I am a teacher in Colorado and I am absolutely entranced by this entire scenario. We have purchased pets from breeders, adopted from shelters, and rescued many others whom have been relinquished or abused. Therefore, I feel confident in stating that I understand the uncertainty of bringing a pet into a home filled with loved ones, from children to other animals that occupy the residence. In addition, we have been battling our own plague of ringworm after adopting a kitten, nearly nine months ago, from a last chance shelter event, which encouraged my eternal sympathy towards those most closely related to this unfortunate story.

    This evening, my family and I watched a short skit on a Pygmy Hedgehog, which enticed me to consider purchasing one as a pet for our 9-year-old son. After just a moments research on Google, I was quickly rerouted to this site. A few hours later, between regulating sibling rivalry and playing a round of Star Wars Monopoly, I have scavenged this site for each juicy morsel of idiocy, indecency, and the lack thereof intelligent conversation.

    At first, I felt pity for those on the receptive end of this transaction as they truly were wronged within the confines of their contract. I also felt an immediate distaste for Michelle and those supposedly representing her best interest. However, after careful consideration, and continued consult with the linked blogs, sites, and other paraphernalia associated with this blog, I have found that the true victims are those whom continue to be on the receiving end of breeders whom think they either rise above the law, can sneak around it, or blatantly ignore the possibility they may be bitten if they choose not to be honest, forthright, and instinctively human when it comes to dealing with defenseless animals and their human counterparts. The loss of time, money, and sanity are only a snippet when one considers the pain, resentment, and future lack of want developed within many of these victims over time.

    In no way does our family love our kitten any less, nor does he us, considering his 3 1/2 months of confinement behind the door of our children’s upstairs bathroom. Yet, my incessant itching (as I am still battling a recurring ringworm infection along my hairline, thanks to the kitten), has not faltered my love nor my affections as I chose to bring him into our home and he then became my responsibility, much like after giving birth to your own flesh and blood. They become a part of your family, home, and life.

    A promised product is just that…a spoken word. Everything must be diligently documented in order to provide lawful intent and guilt, but the true value lies within the heart, mind, and soul. That is where honesty either shines or hides, true guilt is formed or fled, and lies divulge themselves. I believe each party knows where they stand regardless of the documented…or undocumented, intents revealed.

    With regards to the hedgehogs, they became a living part of the family life within Ian’s and Chaz’s home and no amount of rudeness, illiteracy, or lack of money production was going to change their focus. I understand their frustrations and I admire their insistence; however, I too agree with the latest posts as it seems it became a battle of wits, rumors, and whom could divulge the greatest amount of facts, which all pushed away from the main reason this entire scenario was a concern in the first place; the welfare of the pet.

    This evening, I have been entertained, entranced, and led toward an alternate pet path after just a simple search engine rerouted my questions to a blog filled with, what we in the US may refer to as, a “Jerry Springer” episode gone horrifically awry. I commend Spike for taking the risk by presenting this story on his blog, I appreciate the tasteful comments of those truly concerned, and I hope after this tangled story, readers learn the true morale behind this chaos: A pet is no different than ones own children because they become a part of your life and they are your sole responsibility, regardless of their past, and as their owner, you must be ready to accept these responsibilities wholehearted. Embrace their joy, know their sorrow, and they will entrance your heart.

    ““Until one has loved an animal, a part of one’s soul remains unawakened.”
    ― Anatole France

  354. @ Heavenlyhogs…
    I would not be bothered about what people say. You should not need to explain yourself more than what you already have in your letter. It is some sick human nature for people to join in and gang up on an individual for their own pleasure.

    I am not from the UK but stumbled across this site while I was browsing for info on hedgies as I am keen on getting one…

    At the end of the day, if you are not in the so called ” high league” you will be made out to be inferior.

    Carry on breeding if it is your passion, and don’t let people get you down… they are just scared of a little competition 😉

  355. NdzKofe | 11/06/2015 at 8:07 pm |

    I’ve followed this story on and off from the get go after stumbling upon your site Paul/Spike in preparation for my own Hedgie.

    Now that it is 2015, have there been any further developments? Is HevenlyHogs still in the business, and is she still active on the various forums? I ask only because of the liklihood that if she is, there are other unsuspecting clients out there who may be under the mistaken impression that if things haven’t gone well with their hedgie or other critter, that it was their fault, not because they purchased from what appears to be a hobby breeder/hoarder – Especially now that hedgies and gliders have grown in popularity (at least here in the States, where I’m from.)

    Also, would you happen to know if Pickles and Leo were ever able to win the battle against their ringworm? How is Chazy doing, btw. She’s the one who really got the raw end of the deal… As well as Ian and his family.

    Thank you for keeping up on all of this, and for keeping the site going. It has been very helpful in many ways as I researched hedgies and now enjoy having one of my own.

    Cheers –
    NdzKofe

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